Ray Martin and Me

Great report, extremely well written, as usual.

Thanks for sharing it with us.

Now, if you'll answer some of those questions....
 
dmgwalsh said:
As to the behind the rack break shots, does he prefer the one where you use high outside english and go one rail to the middle of the table or the one where you use inside english and go three rails to the middle of the table? There are also a few where you use draw and come back one rail and to the center and of course, the ones where you have to go one rail off the bottom rail into the bottom of the stack glancing and hopefully getting clear. Which did he prefer?

When he set up his preferred side of the rack break, what kind of angle and what kind of stuff would he use?
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Dennis - Lou said something that stuck with me because it is something I noted about that group lesson I attended with Mike Sigel a few months back. Lou said that Martin didn't much care where his cue ball went into the rack, as long as he had a good angle. Sigel was much the same way. He was very specific about what angle he wanted, but didn't seem to care one way or the other about where the cue ball went into the pack. I'm going to guess that he doesn't much care in the back of the pack as much as you would think.

Also, on behind the rack shots, people asked Sigel what spin he used here or there. He gave the usual answers, but I noted that whenever he had a shot that was just a little more difficult than routine (we're still talking about behind the rack break shots), he said not to worry about english -- just make the ball and get the balls open. It seemed like his priority was to make sure you pocket the ball even if you have to give up better position by using some english. In other words, if pocketing the ball isn't like 100%, then don't mess around with english and risk a miss.

FYI...
 
Ray martin

Thank you lou......best post that i have read here to date on 14.1 ..the game of champions.
 
BasementDweller said:
Nice report as always. Just a couple of thoughts:

I really sort of lump all the great 14.1 players together when I think about their style of play. I would have thought that Dallas West and Ray Martin would have very similiar styles. It's interesting to hear that they don't.

Just think how good Ray Martin could have been had he used a PSR.:grin:

I need to introduce your wife to mine:thumbup:
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BasementDweller, I would say they are remarkably different in how they prioritize objectives when running balls. However, Ray did say that he had very high regard for Dallas' game.

Lou Figueroa
 
decent dennis said:
Wow, no aiming system. How did he get by? So are you going to share the combination secret?
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decent dennis, I actually wasn't too shocked about the aiming system part. I've talked to a number of other champions the last few years and they all pretty much say the same thing. And no, for the time being I'm not going to turn the combination trick loose.

Lou Figueroa
 
Cornerman said:
Nice post Lou. The great news for me is that now that I am in St. Pete and Ray gets to a local pool hall quite often in Largo, I can see him pretty much any time and actually have an hour to talk to him. The bad news is that I've only done this once since I've been here.

Freddie <~~~ hardly visited Boston either when I lived close by
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Thanks, Fred. But you gotta spend some time with him. I would have loved to have spent more time with him and maybe talked about 1pocket, which we only talked about briefly.

Lou Figueroa
 
dmgwalsh said:
Lou- Nice review. Glad to hear you are running more balls using what Ray taught you.

I have a few questions, if you do not mind. I understand that you may not answer them because you may think that someone needs to go to Florida to see Ray if they really want the answers. But I won't know for sure unless I ask, so here goes.

As to the behind the rack break shots, does he prefer the one where you use high outside english and go one rail to the middle of the table or the one where you use inside english and go three rails to the middle of the table? There are also a few where you use draw and come back one rail and to the center and of course, the ones where you have to go one rail off the bottom rail into the bottom of the stack glancing and hopefully getting clear. Which did he prefer?

When he set up his preferred side of the rack break, what kind of angle and what kind of stuff would he use?

Did he prefer to use draw or follow on the side of the rack break shots?

What did he tell you about draw that has changed your life?

In what respect is Ray's approach different than Dallas's? Paradigm shift?

What did he tell you about combination shots that helped you so much?

If you can answer anything, that would be helpful to the rest of us out here.

I remember Stu Mattana bemoaning the fact that soon, some of the Straight Pool knowledge is going to be gone unless some of us learn from people like Ray Martin, Dallas West, Jim Rempe. Many do not have the opportunity to travel great distances and take lessons. It would be wonderful if Ray came out with a DVD on straight pool, but in the meantime.........
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lol, ah, leave it to the attorney to pick out all the holes.

Actually, Dennis, there is another version of the same story that has all the "details" filled in -- it was the first version I wrote. But I was, and still am, conflicted about releasing that one. In part, because what Ray shared with me he deserves to get paid for. I felt kinda bad after my report on my lesson with Dallas and had an inner dialogue about having posted so much of what he shared, (albeit at a price). I'm not so sure that what I got from Ray is mine to give to anyone else.

Also, Ray is considering doing an instructional DVD, so I think it would be unfair to preempt some of what he might (or might not) put on his DVD. And so I went over the first version and fuzzed up some of the stuff, but still left enough "meat" that everyone could get the flavor of what it was like to spend some time with one of the legendary players of the game.

Stu is right -- more of us need to go out and try and get some of the knowledge that the grand masters of the game have and try and preserve it.

Lou Figueroa
 
JBKY said:
I got to say that I learned how to play pool from his book. Tell him thanks from me If you can.Great book!! Bet It was great lesson too.John B.
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It was a great lesson, John. At the end he told me to coma back next time i was in the area. I just might do that. I have more questions now :-)

Lou Figueroa
 
Pushout said:
Great report, I envy you! I had a lesson from Ray in 9 ball not long after the one-foul-ball-in-hand-anywhere rules became popular and it stood good for some time until the players my speed and better caught up.
He offered me One Pocket lessons but I chose the 9 ball and was glad I did at the time. Wish I could go see him now but it's just not doable at this time.
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Thanks, Pushout. We talked a bit about 1pocket and some of the tournaments -- it'd be interesting to hear his philosophy on that game. But even though 1pocket is really the only game I play nowadays, I just had to get the 14.1 lesson instead.

Lou Figueroa
 
Great post as always Lou.. I really enjoy your writing style, you really bring things to life for us, always appreciated.

I'm sure interested in that "combinations" advice. I can't make one to save my life. PM's open!!

Peace, Joey
 
bbb said:
lou thanks for sharing your experiences with ray
i hope to take a lesson from him too
btw what cue does ray play with
p.p.s if your new gina is your travel cue you must have some nice players at home:grin:
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Thanks, bbb. Do yourself a favor and spend some time with Ray. Yesterday I was playing some 1pocket and used the combo trick to nail some shots I would have never made a month ago. That one solitary tip is going to pay for the lesson in no time :-)

Ray plays with a Filipino cue, maker unknown, that he bought on eBay. That's the first photo. If you look on YouTube you can see him playing with it in last year's World 14.1.

The next two are of "the girls." The 10th anniversary Gina and then the 25th anniversary travel Gina.

Lou Figueroa
 

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PoolSharkAllen said:
Nice review, Lou. The "99 Critical Shots in Pool" was one of the first books that I started out with too.

You gotta elaborate on Ray's aiming system. If Ray's approach to aiming is "Just see the shot," then it sounds to me like Ray is using a variation of the ghost ball aiming system...with a little bit of "aiming by feel" and HAMB included too. ;)
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Thanks, PoolSharkAllen. Well, we talked about the whole aiming thing for a bit and I can't remember his exact words but basically he said there were too many variables each shot to be using a system. IOW, there were so many things to take into account and that could throw an aiming system off that a player was better off using memory, experience, and instinct. As an example he talked about how just altering speed alone, with any kind of english, is going to change things sufficiently to invalidate any system.

Lou Figueroa
 
sjharr said:
....My father handed me his copy of this book when I expressed some interest in actually learning the game.

He told me to learn this book and I would learn "how" to play. I have my own copy now, and I leaf through it several times a year.

99 Critical Shots is a MUST own publication - in my own opinion!

:thumbup:


Steve H.
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I agree, Steve. It is a true classic.

Lou Figueroa
 
Tom In Cincy said:
I just recently pulled out my "99 Critical shots" to revisit my fundamentals.
Mr. Martin's book has always been one of my favorites.

Thanks for sharing your time with Mr. Martin.
Lou, your story telling is as great as has always been. Thanks again.
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Thank you, Tom.

Lou Figueroa
 
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