Reaching the top of your game

My wrist on my back hand tends to turn outward a bit.
Keeping it perfectly perpendicular to the butt allows me to follow through correctly.
Also a super strong bridge hand firmly planted on the table is the beginning of almost everything.
Can alway tell a real player by their bridge.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pin
...the Attention Circles of Eberspacher. For those who are unfamiliar with this: View attachment 599961
I hadn't heard of this, thank you.

Ironically, unless you're implementing sports psychology very well, thinking about your psychology while playing starts out as a circle 2 distraction, and can cause circle 3 distractions when not going perfectly (which can quickly lead to 4 and maybe 5). So it prevents the very thing it's trying to achieve.
 
I hadn't heard of this, thank you.

Ironically, unless you're implementing sports psychology very well, thinking about your psychology while playing starts out as a circle 2 distraction, and can cause circle 3 distractions when not going perfectly (which can quickly lead to 4 and maybe 5). So it prevents the very thing it's trying to achieve.
Well, there are always going to be potential distractions, if it isn't you thinking about psychology, then it's something else. It's only natural, everyone gets distracted and it happens continuously. The trick is of course to know when you're in circle 2 or further, and then know how to focus on your task again. The theory says that it is possible to step back into circle 1 if you're in 2 or 3, maybe 4. Circle 4 or 5: much more difficult. Circle 6: pack up your cue, exit stage left.
 
I don't think that the "mental" aspect of a sport really matters until a person has reached the point that their consistent ability to perform reaches whatever level they desire in that sport. As a practical example, let's just say your goal in golf is to play to an 8 handicap. Once you reach the ability to consistently play at that 8 handicap, the mental aspect of the game is to not allow anything to enter your mind that would negatively affect any of the physical performance aspects of your game that allow you to shoot at an 8 handicap.

When pros say that a game is 90% mental- they already have reached the physical ability to perform and compete at a pro level - it is then the guys who do not allow anything to distract their ability to perform at their own highest level that are the consistent winners.
 
Also a super strong bridge hand firmly planted on the table is the beginning of almost everything.
Can alway tell a real player by their bridge.
I wouldn't go that far.... I still manage to see decent enough players with that silly closed loop ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pin
I don't think that the "mental" aspect of a sport really matters until a person has reached the point that their consistent ability to perform reaches whatever level they desire in that sport. As a practical example, let's just say your goal in golf is to play to an 8 handicap. Once you reach the ability to consistently play at that 8 handicap, the mental aspect of the game is to not allow anything to enter your mind that would negatively affect any of the physical performance aspects of your game that allow you to shoot at an 8 handicap.

When pros say that a game is 90% mental- they already have reached the physical ability to perform and compete at a pro level - it is then the guys who do not allow anything to distract their ability to perform at their own highest level that are the consistent winners.
I would respectfully disagree, I think.

Playing in the zone happens to people at all levels. We talk about playing in the zone as a binary 'in' or 'out' status, but there's a spectrum of how deeply immersed you are in what you're doing.

Also, Tim Gallwey's (the Inner Game guy) stuff on coaching stresses the vastly different rates of learning people achieve by doing things in ways that use the brain differently.

But the mental aspect alone won't make you a great player, it's only a small part of the puzzle. And I agree with you about the pros' "90% mental" thing.
 
I started working on the mental game about fifty years ago, when I first realized how important it was to me. Since then, I have been far more successful than most at a half-dozen widely different forms of competition despite not being vastly coordinated or having lightning reflexes. Part of my success has been in what I chose to do, I didn't try to do things my body wasn't suited for. Instead of trying to hit a major league baseball coming at me at about a hundred miles an hour or a tennis ball starting out at 110plus miles an hour, I hit a cue ball that had the decency to hold still while I hit it or I shot targets that mostly held fairly still. Circle track racing required conditioned reflexes more often than lightning reflexes but it also lent itself to getting into the zone, my first experience with the zone maybe twenty years before I heard the name. I sometimes did the near impossible driving a car because I was out there at the very limit of what my mind and body were capable of.

Focus seems like a good idea, it really isn't. When we break into that area beyond focus and just start letting our unconscious guide our bodies is when magic happens in any activity! It seems counterintuitive but we have to let go and trust our bodies to perform, not trying to micromanage our play, to reach our highest level. First we give our unconscious and body the building blocks to work with, then we have to step back and get out of the way of our unconscious.

The mental game is super important, however, the mental game isn't what many players think it is.

Hu
 
There are many pieces of the puzzle in acquiring pool excellence. After years of struggling to find out one or two of your flaws in pool, what are your main flaws that you discovered and then corrected to get you on the road to where you wanted to go?
Once I realized I didn't know a damn thing and decided to learn, I improved quite a bit. The problem is, I play better but I still feel like I don't know a damn thing! 😂 I guess if I were a level above where I am now, I would realize I don't know much.
 
Once I realized I didn't know a damn thing and decided to learn, I improved quite a bit. The problem is, I play better but I still feel like I don't know a damn thing! 😂 I guess if I were a level above where I am now, I would realize I don't know much.


I had a sign at my desk at work: "I feel I am as confused as ever but I do think I am confused at a much higher and deeper level now!"

Hu
 
I would respectfully disagree, I think.

Playing in the zone happens to people at all levels. We talk about playing in the zone as a binary 'in' or 'out' status, but there's a spectrum of how deeply immersed you are in what you're doing.

Also, Tim Gallwey's (the Inner Game guy) stuff on coaching stresses the vastly different rates of learning people achieve by doing things in ways that use the brain differently.

But the mental aspect alone won't make you a great player, it's only a small part of the puzzle. And I agree with you about the pros' "90% mental" thing.
Yes, agree, there is always some mental aspect to sports at any level, the 90% thing at the pro level was my key take away on this subject.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pin
Focus seems like a good idea, it really isn't. When we break into that area beyond focus and just start letting our unconscious guide our bodies is when magic happens in any activity! It seems counterintuitive but we have to let go and trust our bodies to perform, not trying to micromanage our play, to reach our highest level. First we give our unconscious and body the building blocks to work with, then we have to step back and get out of the way of our unconscious.
Your understanding of it all sounds spot-on.

One of the questions very few sports psychology writers adequately grappled with was how, in practical terms, to coax that unconscious performance out of oneself. (Tim Gallwey is the person who I think has done that best, at least in the things I've read and tried to apply.)

There are many parts to the question, and most of what I read dealt with the theory-side very well, which prepares a player for what they're trying to achieve, and dealt with the 'attitude correction' quite well, which sets you up to perform in a way that allows the space for the zone to emerge. (Although if you get obsessed with the idea of being in the zone, those thoughts and frustrations will be a new barrier to performance.)

But most gave you nothing to help coax 'the zone' out, so to some extent, the player is left with their d*** in their hand hoping the magic decides to happen.
Which if you think about it, isn't so different from before you studied sports psychology at all, and just occasionally stumbled into the zone by chance.

I found some of Gallwey's attention exercises help bring out something part way to what you'd consider 'in the zone'. I don't see that as a failure - it's a massive improvement on my 'normal' level of play, and it's much better than any other materials have achieved. So on the contrary, I see it as a massive success. But it's probably what you'd class as 'focus' rather than 'zone'. (What you focus on, and how, are important too.)

Hu, did you have any specific tools that would put you in the zone?
 
Your understanding of it all sounds spot-on.

One of the questions very few sports psychology writers adequately grappled with was how, in practical terms, to coax that unconscious performance out of oneself. (Tim Gallwey is the person who I think has done that best, at least in the things I've read and tried to apply.)

There are many parts to the question, and most of what I read dealt with the theory-side very well, which prepares a player for what they're trying to achieve, and dealt with the 'attitude correction' quite well, which sets you up to perform in a way that allows the space for the zone to emerge. (Although if you get obsessed with the idea of being in the zone, those thoughts and frustrations will be a new barrier to performance.)

But most gave you nothing to help coax 'the zone' out, so to some extent, the player is left with their d*** in their hand hoping the magic decides to happen.
Which if you think about it, isn't so different from before you studied sports psychology at all, and just occasionally stumbled into the zone by chance.

I found some of Gallwey's attention exercises help bring out something part way to what you'd consider 'in the zone'. I don't see that as a failure - it's a massive improvement on my 'normal' level of play, and it's much better than any other materials have achieved. So on the contrary, I see it as a massive success. But it's probably what you'd class as 'focus' rather than 'zone'. (What you focus on, and how, are important too.)

Hu, did you have any specific tools that would put you in the zone?


I did have tools. Dropping into the zone let me achieve a record, the first perfect score in some local pistol matches. While that might not sound like much, Masters and Grandmasters had been chasing that record for fifteen years and an over twenty time world champion still shot those matches now and then. I set that record in my second season of pistol competition. I have written that up a handful of times. I'll try to find an old posting, if I don't find one I will send you the tale in a DM unless others indicate an interest.

The zone has been a subject of fascination for me for decades so I have written about it many times. First catch, "we" can't even agree what the zone is! I read a good book about the mental side of the game. The annoying thing was that the Phd or MD writing the book apparently had never been in the deepest level of the zone that I know of and he titled the book "Finding the Zone" or something similar! His advice was good to get ready to compete, almost worthless to find the zone although he had a strong education and had been a serious competitor.

Basically, I have found activities that are repetitious with slight variations are best to get us into the zone. Bouncing a ball off of the floor and wall or juggling or just hitting the cue ball into the rail over and over on the pool table while letting the mind relax. The more times we enter the zone and the more often the easier it gets. I could always find the zone driving a short track car. Once in the zone the car was pretty much an extension of my body and I could run within a few inches of other cars and/or the wall when needed. More importantly, I could flow through traffic. I didn't need to be in the zone to flow through traffic but it certainly made it easier!

This is a pretty good old thread about the zone. It stayed on track more than most of those threads. A search of the user ShootingArts and "zone" will provide lots of reading I suspect, it is a favorite subject of mine!

Hu

 
Had a look at the first few posts in that thread, will read through a little more later.

You've now got me wondering - my regular level of awareness is still a long way from my deepest experiences of the zone. I think one reason is there's a conscious component to my aiming routine (which includes a little bit of visualization - perhaps another unhelpful (in this context) contribution from sports psychology theory!). I might try replacing that with autopilot, see what happens.


The shooting story is great. In the other thread you mentioned the importance of the last couple of shots, under pressure. I think the psychology of performing well under pressure is one of the biggest misconceptions people have, the popular idea of toughness and steeling oneself to overcome the situation...
For me, in my regular level of zone, it's very much following the same process as on a normal shot, with my attention in the same places.
It sounds like for you, it was the 'usual' channeling of the zone.

(If anyone else is still reading this, I guess my quick take-away advice for pressure situations would be to follow your normal routine, and pay attention to the same visual details or sensations as you normally do, and even if your level is below your performance without pressure, hopefully it will still be a good level of performance considering the circumstances - better than choking completely or panicking!)
 
From the other thread:

"Often I have the opposite problem, I am tired or too mellow when I need to be a little tighter, a little more keyed up to perform my best. The solution is quick shallow breathing, if thinking at all still stay with the positive messages. Never focus on what you shouldn't do or how tough the competition is.

"With a little practice using breathing to control our stress level is easy to learn. Like seeking the zone it gets easier with practice. Breath in quick shallow breathes a few minutes just sitting in front of the computer. Feel that fight or flight reflex building? Calm down with deep but not so exaggerated of breathes that it is uncomfortable. One of the things I used to practice when I had a desk job."


I like these ideas, I'll try them out. I've used slow breathing to lower my stress level, but not shallow breathing to increase it. Did you find that would help in a work/office setting?

Occasionally it surprises me how I've failed to use sports psychology things in other parts of my life. Some I have, in specific problem situations, but for the general day-to-day, I've used very little.
 
Had a look at the first few posts in that thread, will read through a little more later.

You've now got me wondering - my regular level of awareness is still a long way from my deepest experiences of the zone. I think one reason is there's a conscious component to my aiming routine (which includes a little bit of visualization - perhaps another unhelpful (in this context) contribution from sports psychology theory!). I might try replacing that with autopilot, see what happens.


The shooting story is great. In the other thread you mentioned the importance of the last couple of shots, under pressure. I think the psychology of performing well under pressure is one of the biggest misconceptions people have, the popular idea of toughness and steeling oneself to overcome the situation...
For me, in my regular level of zone, it's very much following the same process as on a normal shot, with my attention in the same places.
It sounds like for you, it was the 'usual' channeling of the zone.

(If anyone else is still reading this, I guess my quick take-away advice for pressure situations would be to follow your normal routine, and pay attention to the same visual details or sensations as you normally do, and even if your level is below your performance without pressure, hopefully it will still be a good level of performance considering the circumstances - better than choking completely or panicking!)


I don't try to find the zone every time I compete. When I was competing several times a week with a pistol and shooting another thousand rounds or so in practice I found myself entering the zone pretty often. The matches were a series but each one was a 600 point match. There had been dozens of 598's amd 599's shot, I had probably shot a half-dozen or so myself. Over the course of the fifteen years there were at least a dozen, maybe twice that many, shooters with the physical skills to shoot clean. Easily eight or ten with better physical skills than mine while I competed. However, I had more experience competing, and trying to improve myself competing than perhaps anyone that shot those matches. For ten years it was a rare night I wasn't gambling on a pool table and this was with no quarter asked or given. I had competed at a handful of other things too. I had only taken up shooting a pistol competitively after a major injury. I went to the range to plink, they had competition matches, I'm in!

When I was clean half way through the match I shot clean I realized I had shot the hardest stages for me and the only thing between me and a 600 was between my ears. I decided right then I was shooting a six hundred that night, storm or no storm. I went down in the dark end of the firing line and visualized each of those stages as strongly as possible and even planned using the starting buzzer to drop into the zone. Each stage I dropped into the zone in less than a second, on demand! That was the amazing part, Far better competitors than I have found it impossible to drop into the zone on demand. I did it at least the two times that night I needed to.

Applying this to pool, how often do we miss shots that we fully visualize first? Odds are very few! If we can visualize it fully, we can shoot it! When we don't understand the shot well enough to visualize it, the odds of making it go way down.

As far as using the zone or anything related to competition at work, naah! I was taking a break, basically playing hooky when I practiced something from competition like breathing or dominant eye control. I was pretty productive when I was working, to the point my last few bosses accepted I was planning my weekend fishing trip or trips after lunch on Fridays barring a fire to put out. The great thing about being a Mechanical Designer, I could be staring out the window working my butt off or daydreaming and nobody could be sure which!

Funny thing, my two favorite jobs were working in design engineering and commercial crawfishing before I was injured and moved behind a desk. It was very nice to hit the outdoors before daylight and spend the day alone. After decades of hunting and fishing I thought I knew the outdoors. I learned more in six months of seven days a week outdoors than I had learned in my lifetime before!

Definitely getting into late night rambling. quietening my mind is in sore need of practice, something else that you can work on at work!

Hu
 
There are many pieces of the puzzle in acquiring pool excellence. After years of struggling to find out one or two of your flaws in pool, what are your main flaws that you discovered and then corrected to get you on the road to where you wanted to go?
keep your ego in check, know your tip placement on the cue ball, follow through, get in correct alignment, have fun and don't have unrealistic expectations
 
I just turn my brain off.

I also don’t care about the game outcome. I just enjoy playing. I often don’t even remember the next day if I won or lost a game. It was a fun outing with friends.

Decades ago when I was 26 I knew the Snooker community quite well. I sat down with a list and calculated that I was about the 280th to 300th best snooker player in the world. If I practiced 6 hours a day I ‘might sneak into the back end of the top 128 ranking positions and flounder there for a couple of years

Never regretted thinking ‘nope’. Back to doing geology exploration. Make some cash and put a snooker table in my house. I’d rather go fishing or hiking than spend hours practicing. Fun to play a half hour or hour an evening on my table. No desire to reach the top at the expense of other things in life.
 
I just turn my brain off.

I also don’t care about the game outcome. I just enjoy playing. I often don’t even remember the next day if I won or lost a game. It was a fun outing with friends.

Decades ago when I was 26 I knew the Snooker community quite well. I sat down with a list and calculated that I was about the 280th to 300th best snooker player in the world. If I practiced 6 hours a day I ‘might sneak into the back end of the top 128 ranking positions and flounder there for a couple of years

Never regretted thinking ‘nope’. Back to doing geology exploration. Make some cash and put a snooker table in my house. I’d rather go fishing or hiking than spend hours practicing. Fun to play a half hour or hour an evening on my table. No desire to reach the top at the expense of other things in life.


You are lucky or have put in the hours to turn your brain off. Most of us could do it effortlessly as children but we lose the gift and have to work hard to get it back!

Unless you are some kind of savant as Allan Hopkins claimed to be, the table takes up a major chunk of your life to reach near your full potential. Twice during my most serious pool years I logged my time on tables for three weeks. I was working forty to fifty hours a week and still putting in more hours on a pool table than I put in on my job or at my business.

I was considering pool rather than snooker but like you and snooker I gave pool serious consideration. The math didn't work. Pool became an income producing hobby and that was all.

Hu
 
You are lucky or have put in the hours to turn your brain off. Most of us could do it effortlessly as children but we lose the gift and have to work hard to get it back!

Unless you are some kind of savant as Allan Hopkins claimed to be, the table takes up a major chunk of your life to reach near your full potential. Twice during my most serious pool years I logged my time on tables for three weeks. I was working forty to fifty hours a week and still putting in more hours on a pool table than I put in on my job or at my business.

I was considering pool rather than snooker but like you and snooker I gave pool serious consideration. The math didn't work. Pool became an income producing hobby and that was all.

Hu
I turn my brain off by focusing on some thing that reminds me what need to do. For example, when i am down, preshot routine and stroking i count my practice swings. Nothing matters at that moment but those numbers. And when i hit 5 i stroke through.

I force myself to repeat an action by reinforcing it with words. I always did this. In baseball i would count to time my swing. Because i counted how long it took the ball to get to the plate. Basketball free throw i reminded myself with a mantra of "knees, fingertips, up". Each step of my throw.

Saying it out loud really helps me avoid distractions, forces me to follow through.
People might think you are goody for talking to yourself ;)
 
Back
Top