Real Ivory: Pricing in the US

i210mfu

i210mfu

Markus
Silver Member
Hi,

as we all know, the price for pre ban ivory goes up steadily each year and the shortage will soon be visible for all. Since I have no idea on the US pricing for real ivory I would like to compare it to the European pricing.

So here you have to pay about $ 175 per pound for a small tusk (15 Kg/30Pounds) and $ 200 for a large one (25 Kg/ 50 pounds) plus tax for pre ban ivory with the needed papers.

What do you pay??

By the way: Exporting of pre ban ivory is not a problem, but how are the US import regulations on this issue? Does anybody know that??

Regards,

Markus
 
i210mfu said:
Hi,

as we all know, the price for pre ban ivory goes up steadily each year and the shortage will soon be visible for all. Since I have no idea on the US pricing for real ivory I would like to compare it to the European pricing.

So here you have to pay about $ 175 per pound for a small tusk (15 Kg/30Pounds) and $ 200 for a large one (25 Kg/ 50 pounds) plus tax for pre ban ivory with the needed papers.

What do you pay??

By the way: Exporting of pre ban ivory is not a problem, but how are the US import regulations on this issue? Does anybody know that??

Regards,

Markus
Click to expand...

Importing or Exporting any Ivory is clearly against Federal law. Do a search on Google and you will have a better understanding of the protections afforded Elephants and other animals. From what I understand unless you want your ivory confiscated and want to spend some time in jail - do not import or export.

It is illegal to import or export cues that contain Ivory for your information.
 
Hi ArnotQ,

that is not fully true...You sure can legally export or import ivory as long as it is pre ban and you have the right papers (CITES Agreement and Washington Act). The trouble is in the details. For example: I can legally export pre ban ivory from Germany out to any country. The question is what kind of import rules the specific country has. The customs department here gave me the information to it. The elefant (and therefore the ivory) was put on the list first time in 1975, than on a tighter protection 1976 and than banned for commercial use in 1989/1990. But if you have the papers proofing that the ivory was legally aquired before 1990/1989 it can be imported & exported for commercial use. This still does not mean, that you can import real ivory to the US...The custom authorities have told me that the US has tighter restrictions on importing ivory than other countries. The question is wether or not it is generally forbidden or not?

As far as I know the top US cuemakers sell lots of ivory loaded cues to Japan..right..If your assumption is right than they do it illegally .... I don't think they would risk that.

Secondly, I still have no idea how much you pay for it in the US.

Best regards,
Markus
 
1989...

i210mfu said:
Hi ArnotQ,

that is not fully true...You sure can legally export or import ivory as long as it is pre ban and you have the right papers (CITES Agreement and Washington Act). The trouble is in the details. For example: I can legally export pre ban ivory from Germany out to any country. The question is what kind of import rules the specific country has. The customs department here gave me the information to it. The elefant (and therefore the ivory) was put on the list first time in 1975, than on a tighter protection 1976 and than banned for commercial use in 1989/1990. But if you have the papers proofing that the ivory was legally aquired before 1990/1989 it can be imported & exported for commercial use. This still does not mean, that you can import real ivory to the US...The custom authorities have told me that the US has tighter restrictions on importing ivory than other countries. The question is wether or not it is generally forbidden or not?

As far as I know the top US cuemakers sell lots of ivory loaded cues to Japan..right..If your assumption is right than they do it illegally .... I don't think they would risk that.

Secondly, I still have no idea how much you pay for it in the US.

Best regards,
Markus
Click to expand...

..I believe, was the year when it became illegal to import/export ivory.
this applied to all countries due to the fact that the Elephant
was classified as 'threatened' that year.

I am not aware of any change to that situation

the pre-ban concept is for ivory that was in a country prior to the ban.
it is still legal to trade in that ivory within the borders of a nation
but not to import/export across a border

you may be thinking of the time, pre-1989, when it was legal to
import/export 'certified' ivory which had been legally culled from
herds in Africa that had overpopulated their now miniscule protected areas
beyond the lands capacity to sustain them.
That trade was stopped due to coruption in the Government of Kenya,
and amoung the Ivory brokers in Honk Kong, along with AK47 equiped
poachers raiding in Kenya from next door Somalia, and a few other
influences, I'm sure.

As for Japan, it is true that many ivory inlaid cues were imported from
the USA. untill customs started confiscating them, but most were done
in violation of the ban

USA cost
check ebay/us or Google "ivory pre-ban USA"

HTH
Dale
 
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i210mfu said:
As far as I know the top US cuemakers sell lots of ivory loaded cues to Japan..right..If your assumption is right than they do it illegally .... I don't think they would risk that.

Secondly, I still have no idea how much you pay for it in the US.

Best regards,
Markus
Click to expand...
Yes, they are exporting illegally and just not reporting it on the customs form. Many have indeed gotten their cues confiscated by Game and Fish services here, but so far I have not heard of anyone going to jail. I think you are right that it can be brought in with the right forms. But I am told just about the only exception is for those who take tusks on government approved safaris and they are obligated to not sell the tusks until they pass away. The price right now on prime tusk sections is about $200 per pound. So the prices you pay in Germany are about the same as we pay here.
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com
 
i210mfu said:
Hi,

as we all know, the price for pre ban ivory goes up steadily each year and the shortage will soon be visible for all. Since I have no idea on the US pricing for real ivory I would like to compare it to the European pricing.

So here you have to pay about $ 175 per pound for a small tusk (15 Kg/30Pounds) and $ 200 for a large one (25 Kg/ 50 pounds) plus tax for pre ban ivory with the needed papers.

What do you pay??

By the way: Exporting of pre ban ivory is not a problem, but how are the US import regulations on this issue? Does anybody know that??

Regards,

Markus
Click to expand...


Are you talking $175-$200 in Euro bucks?
Ivory here in the US goes for roughly the same in US dollars. If your a patient shopper you can sometimes find it a little cheaper but the price is rising with each purchase. As little as 5 years ago I bought some for $90 per pound in bulk. But I used to buy my snakewood at $35 a stick also!

I do know this........if you want to move any ivory in or out of the country. You do so at your own risk......papers or not! If you list it on the customs papers you will surely never see it again! They just has a major bust in Japan for importing the goods.
 
BarenbruggeCues said:
Are you talking $175-$200 in Euro bucks?
Ivory here in the US goes for roughly the same in US dollars. If your a patient shopper you can sometimes find it a little cheaper but the price is rising with each purchase. As little as 5 years ago I bought some for $90 per pound in bulk. But I used to buy my snakewood at $35 a stick also!

I do know this........if you want to move any ivory in or out of the country. You do so at your own risk......papers or not! If you list it on the customs papers you will surely never see it again! They just has a major bust in Japan for importing the goods.
Click to expand...




Well I don't know from personal experience, but that's the way I heard It. The paperwork only gives them the headsup as to what's in It, and eitherway you are taking your chances. If I remember corectly It was importing from the US to japan where the subject came up. I think that was in another thread.

Greg
 
National border I think...

TellsItLikeItIs said:
Didn't the question of importing & exporting ivory came up in a thread some months ago? If I recall correctly, the Pre Ban ivory loses it's Pre Ban status when it "crosses a State Line".

To address your original question as to cost per pound though, I believe that would be considered confidential info to those that sell it. I personally don't care what my vendor pays for it. If I need it or want it, I buy it. I would not risk my dollars or freedom though by buying it from a source outisde the US. Not meaning to be offensive here, just stating my feelings and preferences.
Click to expand...

No problem sending pre-ban Ivory across a state line
perhaps it looses the pre-ban classification if shipped across
a national border, due to the fact that pre-ban 'legal' means
in a given country prior to the ban, which it would no longer be in that case

Dale
 
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So my understanding is that ivory in cues... means the cue cannot be shipped anywhere except within the country's borders... no ivory inlaid cues can be shipped outside the US and no ivory inlaid cue can be brought in to the US... Am I right on this?

What percentage of cuemakers abide by the law?
 
hadjcues said:
So my understanding is that ivory in cues... means the cue cannot be shipped anywhere except within the country's borders... no ivory inlaid cues can be shipped outside the US and no ivory inlaid cue can be brought in to the US... Am I right on this?

What percentage of cuemakers abide by the law?
Click to expand...

That's the way I understand it also..........None in..None out.

To my knowledge, every cue maker using ivory abids by this. What would possibly make you think that we are not law abidding citizens of our country?
Just because our jails and prisons are over flowing beyond maximum capacity now shouldn't have anything to do with this.
 
What is the impact of traveling between countries with a cue that contains ivory? Will the cue be confiscated?
 
i was told by "THE" ivory supplier that not only can you not ship cues with ivory outside the usa, you cannot knowingly sell to an individual who will be taking or shipping the cue outside of the usa. if i remember he quoted possible fines up to $3000. i only use the fake stuff for cues leaving the country.
 
What would be considered FAKE ivory? If I get stopped while travelling I would like to reply intelligently if asked. I guess I never thought about it after I ordered my Hunter Classic. I primarily travel between the US and the UK.
 
mooseman said:
What would be considered FAKE ivory? If I get stopped while travelling I would like to reply intelligently if asked. I guess I never thought about it after I ordered my Hunter Classic. I primarily travel between the US and the UK.
Click to expand...

Hmmmm. I would think FAKE ivory would be anything that looks like ivory but isn't. Could be made from wood, plastics, bone, corian or even just paint. It could also come from a couple of other animals that aren't protected such as Hippo and Wildebeast. There are a few others that are for the most part protected also such as Narwhale and Elephant Seals.

Dick
 
So I guess if I travel with my cue I should either carry papers/permits advising pre ban ivory or say this is ebony and camel bone ivory/mammoth ivory. Mind you I haven't flown with any cues since you can no longer carry on the aircraft......

Any suggestions while travelling with a cue that contains ivory?
 
BarenbruggeCues said:
That's the way I understand it also..........None in..None out.

To my knowledge, every cue maker using ivory abids by this. What would possibly make you think that we are not law abidding citizens of our country?
Just because our jails and prisons are over flowing beyond maximum capacity now shouldn't have anything to do with this.
Click to expand...

just asking Dave...
 
don't take the ivory

mooseman said:
So I guess if I travel with my cue I should either carry papers/permits advising pre ban ivory or say this is ebony and camel bone ivory/mammoth ivory. Mind you I haven't flown with any cues since you can no longer carry on the aircraft......

Any suggestions while travelling with a cue that contains ivory?
Click to expand...

To clarify:

if your cue(s) contain pre-ban ivory you can use/carry/ship them
within the borders of the USA

you MAY NOT take/ship nor launch one beyond the US border,
being pre-ban doesn't make it ok. Ok?

HTH
Dale
 
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hadjcues said:
just asking Dave...
Click to expand...
No prob..........thought I would just answer for all as. I didn't think any would stand up and say..........Yes I ship ivory out of the states.
But I've been wrong once before.
 
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