titlistsucker
Deceased
May i know what the meaning of recuts, and veneered points. Which is the more difficult work?
Bgrds
Raist
Bgrds
Raist
Recut Points and Veneer Points
- Thread starter titlistsucker
- Start date
titlistsucker said:
Someone else will have to address which is the more difficult to work, but as far as a difference,
http://www.azbilliards.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=20778
Kelly
titlistsucker
Deceased
Thanks
so RECUTs is another name for inlaid points ..
Bgrds
RC
so RECUTs is another name for inlaid points ..
Bgrds
RC
titlistsucker said:
Well, no, not necessarily, did you read the entire thread?
Recut points is just doing the same exact process of constructing a point over again, but the 2nd time, the point being constructed is smaller and centered within the first point already constructed, whether it was a floating inlay point, or a traditionial half splice point spliced into a forearm.
Kelly
titlistsucker
Deceased
ok i finally understand. its one over the other inlays. thanks for the enlightenment.
Bgrds
RC
Bgrds
RC
titlistsucker
Deceased
i dont own all the titlist in the world..so its not "my titlist" keke..i do have a few skips and mottey..so i still have seen recuts ard b4..
Frankly i appreciate the terminology and the wordplay, but i more interested in the effort needed... can any cuemaker elaborate why one is more tedious?
Frankly i appreciate the terminology and the wordplay, but i more interested in the effort needed... can any cuemaker elaborate why one is more tedious?
titlistsucker said:
Certainly someone will reply with first hand experience at both, but since I enjoy sticking my neck out talking about things I am not yet qualified to talk about...
The veneer method, usually the veneers are mitered, and then glued to the point blank, the v grooves are cut into the forearm, then the blanks with attached veneers are glued into the grooves. Excess trimmed and then turned flush.
For recut, you have point blanks. You cut v grooves in the forearm, glue the point blanks in. Excess trimmed and then turned flush. Then you cut another set of v grooves with different settings so everything comes out nice and centered and even the length of the points, then you glue in another set of point blanks, excess trimmed and turned flush again.
The veneer method has more different operations, but I think the recut method is more tedious, takes longer, and tricky to have them turn out just right. Any error/slop in cutting v grooves is compounded, different settings, etc.
<retracting neck>
Kelly
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The veneer method has more different operations, but I think the recut method is more tedious, takes longer, and tricky to have them turn out just right. Any error/slop in cutting v grooves is compounded, different settings, etc.
It sure is.
Recutting means you have to turn down the blank then go back to zero again and recut the points.
It sure is.
Recutting means you have to turn down the blank then go back to zero again and recut the points.
No brainer really, I'm not a cue maker but a four recut point would be more than four times the work of a four veneer point. For veneered points you glue everything together and make a single pass. For recut, you put in the first point, turn it down, mitre it, glue in the next point, turn it down, mitre again and so forth. Sounds simpler than it actually is.
it's more difficult to do perfect veneers, imo.
cuemakers have machinery that have 1/thousandths upon thousandths" tolerance. and some of them were machinists who had to work with that kind of tolerance and more. so cutting perfect points into points should be child's play.
try to get perfect veneers where the miters are almost invisible. i've seen some top cuemakers with only so-so veneer work. if perfection is the issue, i think veneers are more difficult.
my lay opinion.
cuemakers have machinery that have 1/thousandths upon thousandths" tolerance. and some of them were machinists who had to work with that kind of tolerance and more. so cutting perfect points into points should be child's play.
try to get perfect veneers where the miters are almost invisible. i've seen some top cuemakers with only so-so veneer work. if perfection is the issue, i think veneers are more difficult.
my lay opinion.
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Just to further muddy the mix, there are at least three ways that I know of to do "mitered" veneer "shortie" points (i.e. not full-spliced points). I put mitered in quotes because I have seen two of the methods described as mitered, but are not true "miters" under the the following definition:
A joint made by beveling each of two surfaces to be joined, usually at a 45° angle, to form a corner, usually a 90° angle.
One method takes veneer sheets of different colors, glues and stacks them on top of each other to creat the layers. Then strips of these layered sheets are cut with a 45° angle miter, or bevel, on their edge and glued into the v-grooves in one of several ways (like Kelly mentioned above). You can also visit the DZ Cue website to see how Bob does it. This way leaves a miter joint line that should run from the tips of the points, where the veneer layers of the same color meet, straight up to the next point.
The next method is to glue a veneer sheet strip to one side of the point stock, trim it flush with the adjacent side, glue the same color veneer strip on that adjacent side and trim it flush with the first side. Keep doing that until you get all of the colors (layers) you want and glue the layered point into the v-groove. This way leave a veneer layer joint line that runs "off to the side" instead of straight up to the point of the next layer.
The third method is to machine (could be saw, mill, router, etc.) rectangular point stock along its length, so that you are left with a long "L" shaped piece that is the thickness you want your veneer. Repeat for the various colors you want and then glue them on top of each other into the v-groove. You get no joint lines with this method, because, as stated above, the veneer is one continuous piece of wood. Technically, to me, these are basically the same as recuts, just not done in the v-grooves.
There are probably many other methods and certainly variations on these and how to accomplish each of the steps. And I'm NOT a cue maker. So, please take me to the cleaners on my descriptions.
A joint made by beveling each of two surfaces to be joined, usually at a 45° angle, to form a corner, usually a 90° angle.
One method takes veneer sheets of different colors, glues and stacks them on top of each other to creat the layers. Then strips of these layered sheets are cut with a 45° angle miter, or bevel, on their edge and glued into the v-grooves in one of several ways (like Kelly mentioned above). You can also visit the DZ Cue website to see how Bob does it. This way leaves a miter joint line that should run from the tips of the points, where the veneer layers of the same color meet, straight up to the next point.
The next method is to glue a veneer sheet strip to one side of the point stock, trim it flush with the adjacent side, glue the same color veneer strip on that adjacent side and trim it flush with the first side. Keep doing that until you get all of the colors (layers) you want and glue the layered point into the v-groove. This way leave a veneer layer joint line that runs "off to the side" instead of straight up to the point of the next layer.
The third method is to machine (could be saw, mill, router, etc.) rectangular point stock along its length, so that you are left with a long "L" shaped piece that is the thickness you want your veneer. Repeat for the various colors you want and then glue them on top of each other into the v-groove. You get no joint lines with this method, because, as stated above, the veneer is one continuous piece of wood. Technically, to me, these are basically the same as recuts, just not done in the v-grooves.
There are probably many other methods and certainly variations on these and how to accomplish each of the steps. And I'm NOT a cue maker. So, please take me to the cleaners on my descriptions.
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ScottR said:Just to further mud,,,,,,,
There are probably many other methods and certainly variations on these and how to accomplish each of the steps. And I'm NOT a cue maker. So, please take me to the cleaners on my descriptions.
i use "mitered" all the time because i don't know whatother term to use. what 's the best word to describe it?
bruin70 said:
You are using the right terminology for your Peterson cues because the seams of your veneers go straight up the middle,
The methods described by Scott are the best definitions I have read yet,
Tap, Tap, Scott.
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Thanks, Michael. I've been fortunate to have it explained and shown to me by several knowledgable people.Michael Webb said:
In all of my previous rambling, I didn't answer the original question. I think the 45 degree mitered veneer method is the hardest to get perfect for a lot of reasons.
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