uwate said:
Same here which is why I questioned the original poster, the game is the game, luck is luck. You don't see poker players asking for a reduced bet if their cards are already dead, it's all part of the game.
reduce the luck factor in 9 ball...
- Thread starter fan-tum
- Start date
Same here which is why I questioned the original poster, the game is the game, luck is luck. You don't see poker players asking for a reduced bet if their cards are already dead, it's all part of the game.
VonRhett said:
While I agree whole heartedly, as good a player as Billy Incardona does not. As to that being the nature of the game and luck is luck, it's only so if you allow it to be. The above fixes that problem. As I've said before, if you change the rules to more strategic ones such as two shot pushout, people will quit playing 9 ball in droves. The way it is now, I rarely play it and don't really wish to.
yet one of the things thats always impressed me the most is a player's ability to "use" luck. mike sigel i thought was the best. he'd be in a tough spot and he'd realize "if i blast i got a great chance to win, if i try a delicate safety ill probably lose without ever really having a chance."
funny part is people think he's lucky. anyway, this ability to use luck is i think one of say efren's weakest points. he executes so well he thinks he can do anything and hardly ever tries to luck something in if he can see the ball. i think that's a mistake, especially in pool where equipment is never perfect. but you cant argue with his record.
funny part is people think he's lucky. anyway, this ability to use luck is i think one of say efren's weakest points. he executes so well he thinks he can do anything and hardly ever tries to luck something in if he can see the ball. i think that's a mistake, especially in pool where equipment is never perfect. but you cant argue with his record.
I generally agree with those that feel the game is fine as it stands, with the inclusion of spotting the 9 if it is made on the break when it is "rack your own".
Yes, it is very irritating when the rolls are going against you, but as has been stated, things even out. I think that those that really are irked by "fluke hooks/safeties" need to work a little harder on their kicking game. I am just glad to have the chance to get back to the table whether I have a shot or not. Additionally, it is very satisfying to "kick with purpose" and turn the game around with a well executed kick shot.
As to "fluking balls"; there isn't anyone who has played the game that hasn't done it, but we only complain about it when we're on the wrong end of it.
The only thing that really bothers me about the game are the "rack mechanics" and "pattern rackers" that are basically cheating every time they rack the balls. Generally, I play well enough to overcome their shenanigans, but when I see them doing it to me... I always point it out and ask them why they are doing it. They always have a weak answer, but I always learn a little something about their character/integrity (or lack of).
Yes, it is very irritating when the rolls are going against you, but as has been stated, things even out. I think that those that really are irked by "fluke hooks/safeties" need to work a little harder on their kicking game. I am just glad to have the chance to get back to the table whether I have a shot or not. Additionally, it is very satisfying to "kick with purpose" and turn the game around with a well executed kick shot.
As to "fluking balls"; there isn't anyone who has played the game that hasn't done it, but we only complain about it when we're on the wrong end of it.
The only thing that really bothers me about the game are the "rack mechanics" and "pattern rackers" that are basically cheating every time they rack the balls. Generally, I play well enough to overcome their shenanigans, but when I see them doing it to me... I always point it out and ask them why they are doing it. They always have a weak answer, but I always learn a little something about their character/integrity (or lack of).
johnnydub said:
call shot seems to open up a huge bag of worms. can you only call one ball in one pocket to continue shooting? if you call the 4 in the corner can you call the nine in the side? do you win if you call only the 4 and the 9 goes? what about when there is a hanger 2ball and you call the hanger 2 in another hole and stick the guy right there behind a ball. is this the type of pool you want to see and play. there are so many things. i seriously think the general way we play is the best way to play, it alleviates communication between players, which lets face it, to communicate with your opponent is ridiculous many times.... if you dont believe me try telling a guy stuck 200 he's on two. calling balls would amplify this exponentially. anyway, whatever, i just say deal with the "luck" as it is really only a figment of your imagination in the grand scheme of things.
StevenPWaldon said:
For what it's worth that unintentional hook happens to everyone. We've all done it and we've all had it done to us. It evens out over the long run. Does it suck? Yes, of course, but you, and myself too, are just as guilty as the next person from having benefited from it.
MULLY
I think the biggest problem is that no one plays 9-ball the way it used to be played... and the moment you change the rules of the game, say... 9-ball only counts if it is the last ball on the table or 2-fouls -- no one wants to play. I stopped playing 9-ball tournaments except for the occasional one because allot of the tournaments here are just guys trying to bang in the nine. I also stopped playing 9-ball money games (head to head) unless we played with the first above rule plus call your pocket. Anyone playing at my speed or above of course has no problem with that but I don't get to steal allot anymore 
. I do still play ring games because they are still fun.
. I do still play ring games because they are still fun.
mullyman said:
MULLY that doesn't make it right. :grin-square: There is nothing that drives me more nuts than to have someone TOTALLY DOG a ball and win because they got the best roll in the world and get a hook thats better than they ever could have hoped for of they had tried it. :angry:
And besides I never get lucky like that
I've been thinking about this a lot, it seems that you learn a LOT about a person when the rolls don't go their way. Against Jason Richko this weekend I was winning 5-0 and playing great pool, got careless and corner hooked myself on 10-ball shape and missed giving him the game.
He was happy about his luck and with it being 5-1 he got a bad roll in the next rack, did he get angry about it even though nothing was going his way? Hell no he didn't. I have a lot of respect for someone that doesn't allow themselves to get angry or down because the rolls aren't going their way, he didn't roll his eyes, sigh loudly, say one word or curse under his breath.
Another way to think about this push out rule is "why give the person that got bad shape a chance to play a safety by rolling out?". Player A got the bad shape and hooked himself, why should Player A get a chance to roll out? Or am I not understanding this rule right?
He was happy about his luck and with it being 5-1 he got a bad roll in the next rack, did he get angry about it even though nothing was going his way? Hell no he didn't. I have a lot of respect for someone that doesn't allow themselves to get angry or down because the rolls aren't going their way, he didn't roll his eyes, sigh loudly, say one word or curse under his breath.
Another way to think about this push out rule is "why give the person that got bad shape a chance to play a safety by rolling out?". Player A got the bad shape and hooked himself, why should Player A get a chance to roll out? Or am I not understanding this rule right?
no luck 9 ball
Anything that slows the game down is bad. One of the things I like best about 9 ball is it's fast and exciting. Want to take 99% of the luck out? Play ball in hand after every miss.
I would talk people into playing like this once in a while and it was great. We would play 1 push after the break and after that ball in hand after a miss. Going after every shot is a great way to get in dead stroke.
Anything that slows the game down is bad. One of the things I like best about 9 ball is it's fast and exciting. Want to take 99% of the luck out? Play ball in hand after every miss.
I would talk people into playing like this once in a while and it was great. We would play 1 push after the break and after that ball in hand after a miss. Going after every shot is a great way to get in dead stroke.
Pii said:MULLY that doesn't make it right. :grin-square: There is nothing that drives me more nuts than to have someone TOTALLY DOG a ball and win because they got the best roll in the world and get a hook thats better than they ever could have hoped for of they had tried it. :angry:
And besides I never get lucky like that
Yeah, been there done that. It really sucks when it happens, and it always seems to happen at the worst possible time, but I've had it go my way too so I can't really complain.
But, with that said, the luck factor in 9-ball is one of the main reasons I switched to playing straight pool.
MULLY
Fart sniffer said:
Because if player A pushes out, player B has the option to take the shot or give it back. I've played people who never give the shot back. When you have the option, you have choices of how to respond. Without the pushout rule, you have to kick, almost always a low percentage shot {unless your name is Efren}. If you know what to do, you can turn the push in your favor. Most people today don't care to have to think that much, though
To me it sounds like many need to leave the game of pool all together. Luck, good or bad, is part of the game. It sucks when you are on the receiving end of the bad side. If you are in a tournament and it is short sets, it can affect you more, since one game can make a bid difference, but the same for the other guy. I liken it to having to play on a table in a tournament that has a bad spot on a rail, it may suck, but it affects each player equally. If you are playing a banger and the luck something in or luck a safe and they beat you in a race to 7, maybe your game is closer to theirs than you thought and that is what is aggravating you, not the shot. I have a buddy who gets furious when he gets a bad roll, cusses himself, God, whoever, but when he gets the good rolls he is fine.
Pushout said:Because if player A pushes out, player B has the option to take the shot or give it back. I've played people who never give the shot back. When you have the option, you have choices of how to respond. Without the pushout rule, you have to kick, almost always a low percentage shot {unless your name is Efren}. If you know what to do, you can turn the push in your favor. Most people today don't care to have to think that much, though
I'm one of those bangers, sometimes I like to just bang and let things fly. But you're right most people don't want to get that cerebral, it might be a good "mid-game" between 8-ball and 9-ball. It's not as involved as 8-ball but at a higher thinking level than regular 9-ball, maybe even go as far as starting a league or division?
Fart sniffer said:
I think you'll find must bad rolls are from misses and the incoming player gets screwed. If he pushes out it will be to a position he, or you, can make or play safe from anyways so at least you get a shot (if you want it). If you get a good safety and he is already on one foul you could get ball in hand, which is rare in 2 foul. I guess you want him to just kick and hope you get lucky?
Luck
Many will probably disagree with me, but there is no luck in 9 ball.
"For every action, there is a reaction". Just because there was a bad decision for the initial action which caused a bad reaction does not qualify that reaction as bad luck. The player simply made a mistake in judgment or execution.
We often say a not-so-good player making a good shot got lucky, and a real good player making a bad shot got unlucky, but fact is, one executed right and the other did not.
You won't get better until you own up to your mistakes in playing.
Many will probably disagree with me, but there is no luck in 9 ball.
"For every action, there is a reaction". Just because there was a bad decision for the initial action which caused a bad reaction does not qualify that reaction as bad luck. The player simply made a mistake in judgment or execution.
We often say a not-so-good player making a good shot got lucky, and a real good player making a bad shot got unlucky, but fact is, one executed right and the other did not.
You won't get better until you own up to your mistakes in playing.
ive been thinking about this, and i must admit i dont know if im right, but i think that it just may be that no matter what you do to the rules of nine ball there will always be the same amount of luck. luck has more to do with innings.
i started to realize this when getting into one pocket, supposedly there is "no luck in one pocket", right?? there is more luck in one pocket i think because each player has 100 innings per game = 100 chances to get lucky. in 9 ball good players run out and 10 games go by without a trace of luck.
so, if you want to lower the amount of luck, reduce your innings, ie get better, run out and play better players
i started to realize this when getting into one pocket, supposedly there is "no luck in one pocket", right?? there is more luck in one pocket i think because each player has 100 innings per game = 100 chances to get lucky. in 9 ball good players run out and 10 games go by without a trace of luck.
so, if you want to lower the amount of luck, reduce your innings, ie get better, run out and play better players