Removing all Traces of EVIL Wax

S

SlateMate

Banned
i'm convinced that waxing the slate seams is positively evil especially given the fact that we now have this new-fangled plastic filler conventionally called "bondo" which is superior in every way to antiquated wax.... i'm in the process of scraping away as much as possible then i'm going to have to use a solvent to remove the remaining wax. question:

i have enamel reducer, lacquer thinner, mineral spirts et but i really don't want to fill my home with toxic fumes. what is the safest solvent that i can use to rid myself of this evil waxy mess so that the bondo will stick?
 
i didn't wax it, it came this way... what a mess. i even found some wax drops on the playing surface. so much for a professional installation...

that's interesting BUT i don't want any oily residue which i will just have to remove with solvent anyway AND oil might become deeply embedded in the slate making an even bigger problem.

what i did was scrape as much off as i could with a razor-blade then use mineral spirits and finished up with lacquer thinner. it's looking good and i won't have to use much bondo at all because UNLIKE MY POS GCIII this slate is nicely machined. the seam is uniform like this all the way down. it's like a beautiful dream compared to the nightmare i had with my GCIII. i left the razor for size comparison.
 

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yes, i'm very happy with it and that i didn't damage the seam edges setting this table up by myself. i'm going to post this pic along with a pic of the nightmare Brunswick slate that i finally just gave up on. maybe a mechanic can get that table playing OK but i couldn't and all things considered i abandoned the project. too bad because i had the castings and feet painted Xirallic-gold Black and the base and curtains pearl white. it was going to be a thing of beauty.
 
jviss said:
That makes sense, since turpentine is a non-polar organic solvent. Then again, there's nothing like experience!
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Yes, no substitute for experience. I learned last year that if you're going to have your wife hypnotized to want to have sex every time she hears a certain sound, DON'T use a duck call....haven't seen my wife since duck hunting season opened last year!!!:thumbup:
 
If you feel wax is evil then wait till you see what Bondo will do when you go to break apart the slates for a future move. The Bondo actually adheres like a glue between the seams. If it is pressed deeply into a wider seam the chances of it chipping the slate upon removal is very high. You can scribe the seam to sometimes give it a better edge to break on but if any depth chances are it will not work. Bondo does have a place in the slate arena but best used in pocket inserts on antique tables due to the transition from wood insert to slate. It helps more with the shrinkage differential between the slate and wood when on road doing work. I strongly suggest that you use wax paper in between your seams. Also make sure NOT to place it (Bondo) on top of the pieces of slate as so the color of the Bondo is very noticeable (buildup). If it hardens before it is removed the only way to remove is to scrape it (like the Ways on a lathe). I go through more razors cussing out original installers for using Bondo and not using it properly! the Slate is pretty much ruined at that point because it has a hill where it should have been a level transition. Then to make matters worse they usually try to sand the Bomdo down to level which winds up making low spots on each side of the Bondo because the slate will sand easier. Just my 2 cents. But I've been around the block more than a few times. Wax is only supposed to be used where the seams are nice and tight. I prefer to make repairs to chips with a thin set 24 hour epoxy with wax paper in between. If on site and table needs sooner completion JB Weld is harder to work with and will have to be scraped as well but it has much closer reactive properties as the slate as far as jumping ball by forcing into slate. I appreciate ANYONE wanting to do the best work to their table always. I just don't want to see you disappointed with the results. This has been an argument for a long time and both can be used well just as long as used properly. I am sure there are others who will disagree but that is fine too. I just feel compelled to send a post at certain times.
 
J. Chambers said:
If you feel wax is evil then wait till you see what Bondo will do when you go to break apart the slates for a future move. The Bondo actually adheres like a glue between the seams. If it is pressed deeply into a wider seam the chances of it chipping the slate upon removal is very high. You can scribe the seam to sometimes give it a better edge to break on but if any depth chances are it will not work. Bondo does have a place in the slate arena but best used in pocket inserts on antique tables due to the transition from wood insert to slate. It helps more with the shrinkage differential between the slate and wood when on road doing work. I strongly suggest that you use wax paper in between your seams. Also make sure NOT to place it (Bondo) on top of the pieces of slate as so the color of the Bondo is very noticeable (buildup). If it hardens before it is removed the only way to remove is to scrape it (like the Ways on a lathe). I go through more razors cussing out original installers for using Bondo and not using it properly! the Slate is pretty much ruined at that point because it has a hill where it should have been a level transition. Then to make matters worse they usually try to sand the Bomdo down to level which winds up making low spots on each side of the Bondo because the slate will sand easier. Just my 2 cents. But I've been around the block more than a few times. Wax is only supposed to be used where the seams are nice and tight. I prefer to make repairs to chips with a thin set 24 hour epoxy with wax paper in between. If on site and table needs sooner completion JB Weld is harder to work with and will have to be scraped as well but it has much closer reactive properties as the slate as far as jumping ball by forcing into slate. I appreciate ANYONE wanting to do the best work to their table always. I just don't want to see you disappointed with the results. This has been an argument for a long time and both can be used well just as long as used properly. I am sure there are others who will disagree but that is fine too. I just feel compelled to send a post at certain times.
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Always good to hear from you Jerimy!

Spot on, in my opinion.
 
bradsh98 said:
Always good to hear from you Jerimy!

Spot on, in my opinion.
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Bondo is my choice, and has been for the last 36 years, but only in the seam, not on top, and not to fill the gap between slates because they're not pulled together correctly. Bondo is plastic, use a torch to heat it up, then scrape it off....just my .02
 
realkingcobra said:
Bondo is my choice, and has been for the last 36 years, but only in the seam, not on top, and not to fill the gap between slates because they're not pulled together correctly. Bondo is plastic, use a torch to heat it up, then scrape it off....just my .02
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As with anything, Bondo is perfectly acceptable, in the correct hands.

I believe wax to be much easier to work with, and I only use Bondo in rare cases, as needed. I bond all seams with drywall tape and CA glue.

As I stated in another thread, and Jerimy mentioned here, a person can really screw up a set of slates with Bondo. I know that you are proficient with it, and that's fine. But, not everyone will be. And it's those folks who make more work for guys like us.
 
a person can really screw up a set of slates with Bondo.
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i don't understand how. it comes off about as easily as does the wax. i took a razor-blade scraper and just went down the slate. not a problem. there was some in the seam but that sanded easily. next time though i'll take Cobra's advice and heat it up first..... the wax that was on my table was a mess. they also dripped it on other parts of the slate playing surface.
 
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SlateMate said:
i don't understand how. it comes off about as easily as does the wax. i took a razor-blade scraper and just went down the slate. not a problem. there was some in the seam but that sanded easily. next time though i'll take Cobra's advice and heat it up first..... the wax that was on my table was a mess. they also dripped it on other parts of the slate playing surface.
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Understand that your experience may be atypical.

I stand by my comments on the matter. The reasoning has already been discussed recently.
 
no, i'm not going to stop until you realize that you are wrong and beg for our forgiveness. ;)

your position is that bondo sticks the slates together and is hard to remove. well, sticking the slates together seems to be a desirable outcome and Cobra just showed that heating up the plastic bondo makes it's removal much easier. ALSO, you can't vacuum your table with wax in the joints or it will suck it out of the seam and create a bulge under the cloth. ALSO; the bondo will help protect the edges of the seams against chipping and it's easier to apply.

now, i will do my best to cure you though this forum. SATAN BE GONE!.... SATAN BE GONE! *SMACK* ;)
 
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SlateMate said:
no, i'm not going to stop until you realize that you are wrong and beg for our forgiveness. ;)

your position is that bondo sticks the slates together and is hard to remove. well, sticking the slates together seems to be a desirable outcome and Cobra just showed that heating up the plastic bondo makes it's removal much easier. ALSO, you can't vacuum your table with wax in the joints or it will suck it out of the seam and create a bulge under the cloth. ALSO; the bondo will help protect the edges of the seams against chipping and it's easier to apply.

now, i will do my best to cure you though this forum. SATAN BE GONE!.... SATAN BE GONE! *SMACK* ;)
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I said it before, if wax pulls out of the seams when you vacuum,, it is because YOU installed it incorrectly. That will NEVER happen on a table that I have installed.
 
I said it before, if wax pulls out of the seams when you vacuum,, it is because YOU installed it incorrectly.
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from a novice perspective, you just melt the wax into the seam and scrape off the excess. what more can be done to keep it from sucking out?

but you didn't address my point that bondo not only helps keep the slates glued together but also protects the fragile slate edges at the seam especially if you play a lot of 'smash the rack as hard as possible' games. this is a huge advantage IMHO.
 
SlateMate said:
from a novice perspective, you just melt the wax into the seam and scrape off the excess. what more can be done to keep it from sucking out?

but you didn't address my point that bondo not only helps keep the slates glued together but also protects the fragile slate edges at the seam especially if you play a lot of 'smash the rack as hard as possible' games. this is a huge advantage IMHO.
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You need to melt the wax into the pores of the slate. When scraped, it will be about a 4" wide stripe of wax, with a smooth appearance, like glass.

How much damage do you think the edges of the slate would see?? If the slates are pulled tight together, the edges won't be contacted. I don't care what game you or playing or how hard the balls contact the surface.

You hit the nail on the head: "from a novice perspective". Your arguments don't hold weight. Bondo has its place. Wax is a great seam filler. Either product is sufficient, in the proper hands. However, Bondo can result in a significant amount of damage, if used improperly. These points have been made.

Use what you want. But don't tell the rest of us about the inferiority of a product, just because you don't know how to use it.
 
Slatemate - you have a fiendish sense of humor that i've been getting a kick out of.

I think something that has not really been addressed is that there is wax, and then there is wax; and there is "bondo" and then there is "bondo"

About a hundred years ago in a different life, i did a bit of autobody and custom bike work. Some "bondo's" are flexible, and have soft porous fillers like microballoons that abrade fairly easily if the filler content is high, less so if it is low compared to the polyester resin. Others have talc, which sounds soft, but is denser and harder to sand. There's some, including those used for patternmaking, that have dense fillers that are specifically designed to reduce abrasion effects.

Beeswax is pretty hard, and compared to say, parafin wax or typical candle wax, has a relatively high melting point. There are loads of wax formulations, including machinable waxes. Some of these are more like plastic. Pure beeswax is relatively hard, tough and not too low melting point. Parafin/candle wax is crumbly and has a lower melting point (can soften in high ambient temp)

As far as wax vs bondo or both at once + super glue or any other permutation, i don't have a horse in the race and am here strictly to learn. But i'd like to convey that Geoff is one of the coolest people on the planet. If he has an ego, i've never seen it weaponized. He's a lot more interested in solving problems and conveying/exploring real, solid, technically considered information. And he does that so well that sometimes even i understand it!

smt
 
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