Replacing touched balls

S

Stephen Folan

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I have a question that I feel pretty embarrassed that I don’t know the definitive answer to! I’ve looked for it as many versions of rules I could find, but couldn’t find the answer.

In 8, 9 and 10-ball, if you’re playing cueball fouls only and a player touches more than one object ball, it’s an instant foul. After the foul has been called, does the incoming player have the option to have those balls replaced (the same way they you can if only one ball is disturbed)?

I would think not, because the foul has now been committed and the table has to be played the way it is, with ball in hand.

Hopefully someone has the answer

Also, the rule may be different depending on the discipline being played, if so, what are the differences?
 
Guessing it stays where it is after being touched, otherwise it would be a never ending debate on where it was originally located specially if the location of the ball has a significant impact on the results of the game, unless there is a referree...
 
fish2 said:
Guessing it stays where it is after being touched, otherwise it would be a never ending debate on where it was originally located specially if the location of the ball has a significant impact on the results of the game, unless there is a referree...
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I agree. Ball in hand is enough of a penalty without having to replace the balls. If the moved balls are jammed up making for a tough run out, the player with the ball in hand still has the opportunity to try to lock up and potentially 3 foul his opponent.
 
Stephen Folan said:
I have a question that I feel pretty embarrassed that I don’t know the definitive answer to! I’ve looked for it as many versions of rules I could find, but couldn’t find the answer.

In 8, 9 and 10-ball, if you’re playing cueball fouls only and a player touches more than one object ball, it’s an instant foul. After the foul has been called, does the incoming player have the option to have those balls replaced (the same way they you can if only one ball is disturbed)?

I would think not, because the foul has now been committed and the table has to be played the way it is, with ball in hand.

Hopefully someone has the answer

Also, the rule may be different depending on the discipline being played, if so, what are the differences?
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In general the WSR do not cover the so-called "cue ball fouls only" option. There is only a very brief discussion in the Regulations for situations where there is no referee at the table.

The CSI rules are much more complete for this. Under CSI cue-ball-fouls-only rules, disturbing more than one ball is a foul and there is no option of restoration. I think the CSI rule is the same for all disciplines.
 
only two possible fair rules.
1. opponent replaces the balls where he thinks they were to his best knowledge and the shooter shoots his shot as if nothing happened
but a simple mistake. cueball fouls only rule.
or
2. the more stringent rule where the opponent replaces them best to his knowledge and the shooter has a foul and loses his turn.
same as if he just touched the cueball by mistake. and in nine ball it would be ball in hand.

the csi rule is ludicrous. to say the least.
 
Funny, that exact same situation happened to me yesterday. Barroom/unique club rules, but still…CUEBALL FOULS ONLY! The only fair ruling (I had always assumed) was ‘opponent’s option’: Replace to HIS satisfaction, or shooter continues ‘as they lie’. If the opponent wants to wrongly replace to HIS advantage, then (regardless of his dishonor), those of us who grew up playing ‘all fouls’ would recognize the justice, shouldn’t whine, and thus ‘bite the bullet’.
 
Both in league and friendly casual play, if this comes up, whether it was me or the opponent that did it, both players just talk it over, agree on replacing the balls or not, and continue on. I have never seen it escalate past that with anyone i play with. I will say, i did accidentally move an opponents ball in league a few weeks ago while i was treetopped and shooting over a ball. It was a cluster of two of his balls, that were nowhere near being lined up for a combo. After i moved the ball, i told him and his team about it, and they replaced the ball, but lined it up dead for a combo:ROFLMAO:. I just laughed and told them i see what you guys did there. There was nothing i could really do as i am the one that moved the ball. It is a super friendly league and we just laughed it off. It was a very weak player and i beat him anyways:D
 
skiergd011013 said:
Both in league and friendly casual play, if this comes up, whether it was me or the opponent that did it, both players just talk it over, agree on replacing the balls or not, and continue on. I have never seen it escalate past that with anyone i play with. I will say, i did accidentally move an opponents ball in league a few weeks ago while i was treetopped and shooting over a ball. It was a cluster of two of his balls, that were nowhere near being lined up for a combo. After i moved the ball, i told him and his team about it, and they replaced the ball, but lined it up dead for a combo:ROFLMAO:. I just laughed and told them i see what you guys did there. There was nothing i could really do as i am the one that moved the ball. It is a super friendly league and we just laughed it off. It was a very weak player and i beat him anyways:D
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I understand it wasn’t serious, but allowing an opponent to get away with doing something like that is not doing them any favors. It will eventually happen again, and someone else very likely won’t be as nice about it as you were.
 
The way we used to play it is that the movement of the ball(s) are a ball in hand foul. The person awarded BIH has the option of replacing the balls to their original position or leaving them where they are now. Either way the choice is his as is BIH.
You learn real fast to be careful!!
 
Bob Jewett said:
In general the WSR do not cover the so-called "cue ball fouls only" option. There is only a very brief discussion in the Regulations for situations where there is no referee at the table.

The CSI rules are much more complete for this. Under CSI cue-ball-fouls-only rules, disturbing more than one ball is a foul and there is no option of restoration. I think the CSI rule is the same for all disciplines.
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Thanks Bob, that answers my question. The rule makes sense
 
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Arnaldo
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maha said:
only two possible fair rules.
1. opponent replaces the balls where he thinks they were to his best knowledge and the shooter shoots his shot as if nothing happened
but a simple mistake. cueball fouls only rule.
or
2. the more stringent rule where the opponent replaces them best to his knowledge and the shooter has a foul and loses his turn.
same as if he just touched the cueball by mistake. and in nine ball it would be ball in hand.

the csi rule is ludicrous. to say the least.
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That is a normal way to play cueball fouls only, more than one moved is ball in hand foul and they stay where they were. I have seen several times where someone hits 2-3-4 balls, and they then knock into other balls in clusters. You would need a video replay to track what happened.

I'd rather leave the balls where they are with ball in hand foul, no way to know where the other balls were before they were hit with any accuracy, not enough for a pool game for sure. One ball is pretty easy to track and put back. More than one, forget it. I think those rules are just fine and simple to follow. Move one ball by accident in cueball only, replace at option of the opponent. More than one moved, or they would be in the area of interference with other balls, foul.
 
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the problem is if its 8 ball or one pocket. leaving the moved balls where they lay can greatly harm the opponent much more than the benefit he may get from the declared foul.

and how can you have a rule where object balls moved by a persons hand get to stay where they are.
 
skiergd011013 said:
Both in league and friendly casual play, if this comes up, whether it was me or the opponent that did it, both players just talk it over, agree on replacing the balls or not, and continue on. I have never seen it escalate past that with anyone i play with. I will say, i did accidentally move an opponents ball in league a few weeks ago while i was treetopped and shooting over a ball. It was a cluster of two of his balls, that were nowhere near being lined up for a combo. After i moved the ball, i told him and his team about it, and they replaced the ball, but lined it up dead for a combo:ROFLMAO:. I just laughed and told them i see what you guys did there. There was nothing i could really do as i am the one that moved the ball. It is a super friendly league and we just laughed it off. It was a very weak player and i beat him anyways:D
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I had a guy (pretty well known for trying to get away with stuff) pull a move on me after making the 9 on the break and scratching. He put the 9 on the table at least an inch from the spot, because if it was placed up on the spot it would line up a dead 1-9 combo LOL. I moved the ball to where it should be, and his team-mates yelled "you can't move that!" LOL
 
arnaldo said:
Couldn't resist. What do you do here:


Arnaldo
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Reminds me of the time I played Keith in a 1p tournament.

Pretty sure he was frightened of me skillz coz I almost made it to 3 in one of the games (haha)...

I was shooting a shot that was a little jacked-up and I touched the ball I had to shoot over.

I said I touched it and when he replaced it, he put it as close to cb as possible and in line with the shot.

One of just a few free lessons I learned that set!

Good times.
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ChrisinNC said:
I understand it wasn’t serious, but allowing an opponent to get away with doing something like that is not doing them any favors. It will eventually happen again, and someone else very likely won’t be as nice about it as you were.
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Yes, dishonorable conduct CAN have consequences. Some learn, but some won’t (not my brother’s keeper). Better ‘I’ should learn not to foul.
 
I saw a whole league match get thrown out because someone would make a ball and skim a ball with their stick and move it closer to a pocket. The other teams captain filmed it and showed the league representative what was going on. That person was banned a session because of it and due to repeated cheating while playing. Might fly in bars but not leagues or tournaments.
 
More than once I've had opponents opt to not restore balls because they'd been moved to a place that created a tieup. That's chickenshit. You restore them to their original locations as best you are able and use your opponents help if needed.
 
SBC said:
More than once I've had opponents opt to not restore balls because they'd been moved to a place that created a tieup. That's chickenshit. You restore them to their original locations as best you are able and use your opponents help if needed.
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The BCA rules are conflicting. One rule states the opponent definitely has the option to leave moved balls in position. Another states that the referee (opponent, acting as such) is obligated to replace to the best of his ability (and his decision is final), and yet another states that both players must agree the replaced position is correct. (!!?)
Another issue that come to mind: If your opponent intentionally fouls and moves object balls to his advantage, could you (acting as referee) likely rule his conduct as ‘unsportsmanlike‘, and thus enforce a ‘severe’ penalty?
 
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