Ring installation...

Zims Rack

Zims Rack

Promoting the Cueing Arts
Silver Member
What is the prefered method of installing rings and why?
A. Glue rings onto tenon, then turn to size.
B. Glue rings together, then glue to tenon, then turn to size.

Also, what is a good epoxy to use? What is your method of glueing the rings? How do you apply the glue to the rings, how do you clamp them together, do you use a tenon between them to keep them lined up or just eye them into alignment then glue?

I ask these questions because of my experience the past 2 days. I cut 5 rings the size that I wanted them, spread epoxy on the sides of them, slid them over a smaller tenon (for support), used a "Quick Grip" clamp to clamp them together tightly. I let them set overnight (about 12-14 hrs). I just tried to trim them to a similar diameter and get the excess glue off, but they split apart. Suggestions, what am I doing wrong, wrong epoxy maybe? I'm using a 2-part "Araldite Super Instant Epoxy" by Pacer Technology, quick dry 90 seconds.
Thanks in advance for the tips and help,
Zim
 
I have seen rings glued up before being applied to the cue. But I have always glued them onto the tenon on the cue itself and used Devcon 2 ton epoxy. I used five minute in my very earliest cues and had some rings come loose. Quick epoxy is weaker than slower epoxies. If you want to glue up the rings first I think I would glue them onto a tenon, turn the outside down to smooth them up then bore the wood out of the middle. Seems like wasted work to me as if I am gluing them on a tenon and lining up all squares and stitches, why not just do it on the cue?
I apply glue to the cue tenon, then to the inside and bottom side of a ring. Slip that ring on, apply glue to tenon and bottom and inside of next ring, keep following that until all rings are glued up. Make sure you draw a line up the cue so all stitch rings line up with one another.
 
rings

I had a lot of trouble with rings I was putting on a shaft to match the butt. It had a black .150 / silver .030 / black .030 / silver .030 /black .150 . I put all rings on tenon glued them on and they would break loose when cutting down. I had nickel or SS rings for the silver and tried it 3 times with different glues they all came loose. I then tried aluminium rings for the silver it worked out well . The only problem I have now is I have a little .005 swell I can feel right were the to rings are. just thought I would share what happen with me.
 
cueman said:
I have seen rings glued up before being applied to the cue. But I have always glued them onto the tenon on the cue itself and used Devcon 2 ton epoxy. I used five minute in my very earliest cues and had some rings come loose. Quick epoxy is weaker than slower epoxies. If you want to glue up the rings first I think I would glue them onto a tenon, turn the outside down to smooth them up then bore the wood out of the middle. Seems like wasted work to me as if I am gluing them on a tenon and lining up all squares and stitches, why not just do it on the cue?
I apply glue to the cue tenon, then to the inside and bottom side of a ring. Slip that ring on, apply glue to tenon and bottom and inside of next ring, keep following that until all rings are glued up. Make sure you draw a line up the cue so all stitch rings line up with one another.
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Sounds basically what I thought was right. I was using another tenon to experiment with the epoxy I bought. Obviously it wasn't the right choice. I'm assuming you have the Devcon 2 ton epoxy for sale? Thanks for everything Chris and you'll be getting more of my money as time goes by.
Thanks again,
Zim
 
Hannphie said:
I had a lot of trouble with rings I was putting on a shaft to match the butt. It had a black .150 / silver .030 / black .030 / silver .030 /black .150 . I put all rings on tenon glued them on and they would break loose when cutting down. I had nickel or SS rings for the silver and tried it 3 times with different glues they all came loose. I then tried aluminium rings for the silver it worked out well . The only problem I have now is I have a little .005 swell I can feel right were the to rings are. just thought I would share what happen with me.
Click to expand...

You gotta trim down the metals rings a hair than those black phenolics. Metal rings swell. They may not after trimming them down but eventually they'll break thru the finish
 
Zims Rack said:
What is the prefered method of installing rings and why?
A. Glue rings onto tenon, then turn to size.
B. Glue rings together, then glue to tenon, then turn to size.

Also, what is a good epoxy to use? What is your method of glueing the rings? How do you apply the glue to the rings, how do you clamp them together, do you use a tenon between them to keep them lined up or just eye them into alignment then glue?

I ask these questions because of my experience the past 2 days. I cut 5 rings the size that I wanted them, spread epoxy on the sides of them, slid them over a smaller tenon (for support), used a "Quick Grip" clamp to clamp them together tightly. I let them set overnight (about 12-14 hrs). I just tried to trim them to a similar diameter and get the excess glue off, but they split apart. Suggestions, what am I doing wrong, wrong epoxy maybe? I'm using a 2-part "Araldite Super Instant Epoxy" by Pacer Technology, quick dry 90 seconds.
Thanks in advance for the tips and help,
Zim
Click to expand...

Two things could have gone wrong there... first, wrong glue... which in effect brings the secong thing... glue breakup due to heat when cutting. Just follow what Chris said and you'll never go wrong.

Ey in no time you'll be coming out with your first cue Zim!:D
 
((VH)) said:
You gotta trim down the metals rings a hair than those black phenolics. Metal rings swell. They may not after trimming them down but eventually they'll break thru the finish
Click to expand...
Thanks for your help on this matter. I was wondering how can you trim the metal rings down once you put them on and glue them. Should you trim them down before you put them on. Thanks just not sure as to what you were saying. Thanks Hannphie
 
Would it help to scuff up the sides of the metal rings with fine (about 320 grit) sandpaper in order to provide the glue with a better mechanical bond?
 
Hannphie said:
Thanks for your help on this matter. I was wondering how can you trim the metal rings down once you put them on and glue them. Should you trim them down before you put them on. Thanks just not sure as to what you were saying. Thanks Hannphie
Click to expand...

Just glue them on full size. But be sure to rough the silver rings up for good glue bonding and use a slower epoxy. Devcon 2 Ton can be bought at most Walmarts. Stainless rings are a bad idea as it does not glue as well or cut as easy. After turning the rings and cue down to finished size use a small triangle shaped file and file the silver a little lower than the phenolic rings. This helps cut down on the swelling and popping through the finish. I have almost totally quit using the washer shaped rings because they give so much trouble in the long run. I use fancier stitch rings as I feel they give no problems and look better anyway.
Chris
www.internationalcuemakers.com
 
glue and rings

Hannphie said:
I had a lot of trouble with rings I was putting on a shaft to match the butt. It had a black .150 / silver .030 / black .030 / silver .030 /black .150 . I put all rings on tenon glued them on and they would break loose when cutting down. I had nickel or SS rings for the silver and tried it 3 times with different glues they all came loose. I then tried aluminium rings for the silver it worked out well . The only problem I have now is I have a little .005 swell I can feel right were the to rings are. just thought I would share what happen with me.
Click to expand...

Hi Hannphie,
Glueing rings can cause you trouble. What I do is fairly simple. I build a jig out of delrin, [I make two] one will be about 3/4 in dia., and 4" long, with a 5/8 tenon x about .020 long. I make the secnd on the same, except it's about 1" in dia., x 3/4 dia., at the tenon x .020 long. Place the ring on it and then sand it with 220 paper, be sure to sand or score both sides. This will give the glue a good clean surface to bond to. Doesn't take much scoring.

As far as rings turning loose when machining, two things take place. First, your taking to much material off at one time. Take smaller machine cuts. Don't be in such a hurry. Go slow, but turn you lathe fairly fast. What happens is your taking to much off, and causeing the material to heat up, and this willl break down the glue. Or, your just breaking it loose with a big machine bite. Also keep your single point tool very sharpe. Hanger guys.
blud
 
Ey Blud welcome back! It's been quite a while not seeing you here!

Thanks for your help on this matter. I was wondering how can you trim the metal rings down once you put them on and glue them. Should you trim them down before you put them on. Thanks just not sure as to what you were saying. Thanks Hannphie[
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Chris and Blud gave a detailed explanation to it... free of charge:D
 
Thanks Chris, Blud and others that gave some input on this subject. I'll try all the methods mentioned and see what works best for me.
I hope I get the chance to meet you all at the Mid West Expo in October.

Thanks,
Zim
 
Zims Rack said:
Thanks Chris, Blud and others that gave some input on this subject. I'll try all the methods mentioned and see what works best for me.
I hope I get the chance to meet you all at the Mid West Expo in October.

Thanks,
Zim
Click to expand...
(not being an A-Hole or anything but...) Maybe you should just not use them. Does your cuesmith have the indexing head? If so, that and the router would be all you need to make your own stitch rings. Look a lot better, and nowhere near as much trouble, like has already been said.

Thanks,

Jon
 
back

((VH)) said:
Ey Blud welcome back! It's been quite a while not seeing you here!





Hey VH,
Been real busy. Been over-seas, selling cues.
Been back about two weeks this comin thrusday. Got back and had a root-canal done and been feeling bad of late. better now.

Rings, seems the harder you try to help someone, they go the other way. To do it right, you got to have a sanding jig. All it is, is a round piece of delrin, with the correct size tenon for the washer, or ring your wanting to rough up. Tenon needs to be a little shorter than the thichness of the washer your using. Hold it up right, with the ring/washer, on the tenon, and use a swrilling motion, two or three times around. BOOM, your done.
Chris says don't use the stainless, don't blame him, but I use nickle-silver all the time, and it's hard as h++l... No expanding of rings, don't have to undercut them either. Just done it so many times, it's easy.

Got a PM from Purdy, he and his wife willl be here on Friday morning. Drinkin coooooold beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer and play one hole friday night. Big cook out sat and or sun. Come on down VH?
blud
Click to expand...
 
rings

Blud and Chris , Thank you very much for you help and time . I look forward to doing business with both of you in the future. I think it is great that you come here and answer all the questions you do. Hannphie
 
Blud,

Root canal ey? Whoaaa!!!:D

What about brass rings?

Thanks man, I'm really tied up. Would love to get down there though. Hardly have time to balance my schedules. I'll take a raincheck for that. Have a ball with Purdy and drink some for me :D
 
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