round points,,,,,a sell out

[billfishhead]

do you consider round points (milled) a sell out and rounded diamonds on a cue a cheap sell out ?

a milling machine has its place, but come on guys lets hog out the material and then sharpen up those corners

 

[Kevin Lindstrom]

Sharpness counts

I don't know if I would call it a sell out but I personally despise the rounded points and inlays. I like my points and inlays to have sharp points

 

[hadjcues]

Maybe they just don't have the time to hog it out to sharp corners... or they just don't want to... to each his own as Blud would say...

Hadj

 

[MVPCues]

do you consider round points (milled) a sell out and rounded diamonds on a cue a cheap sell out ?

a milling machine has its place, but come on guys lets hog out the material and then sharpen up those corners

If you filled a room with 5 cuemakers, 3 religious leaders, and 3 politicians, there would probably be 5 guys in the room who could not agree on anything. That being said, for the most part cuemakers look out for each other, particularly ones that learn a few things from each other from time to time by participating in a forum such as this. They all know how tough this business is.

If a cuemaker who posts here feels the way you do, and sharpens up the corners on everything he does, that is just his preference, he is not going to put down the work of his colleagues by agreeing with your wording if he values their friendship and professional respect. If a cuemaker does not sharpen corners on some of his cues, making any sort of argument here is just a losing proposition.

I personally feel that those who prefer/demand the corners being sharp should be glad there are cues made where the corners do not meet their satisfaction. If every cue had sharp points and inlays, they would know no better and not appreciate the work of sharp corners quite as much. People have the freedom to choose and freedom to spend their money with a cuemaker who does that work, or who would do that work when asked.

Just my opinion,
Kelly

 

[rhncue]

do you consider round points (milled) a sell out and rounded diamonds on a cue a cheap sell out ?

a milling machine has its place, but come on guys lets hog out the material and then sharpen up those corners

Absolutel;y not. Most any cuemaker can sharpen points or make half-splice instead of flat bottomed points. Thing is, sharp points and inlays do not make the cue play any better but will dramatically increase the cost of the cue.

Building cues is a business. Each month you have a set nut to cover, ( rent, utilities ins., advertising, phone and so on ) plus wages for you and employees if you have any. You devide your hours into your expenses and you know how much an hour to charge. A cue that has a lot of hand work involved will of coarse have to cost more money.

Most pool players want a nice looking, good playing cue. Truthfully, probably the best playing cues are plain ones as there isn't wood removed for inlays, making them more solid. At any rate, rounded inlays are created when an end mill is used to create a pocket and being a Pantomill or a CNC makes no difference. By using smaller end mills(1/32 or 1/64) these radiuses can greatly be reduced making them much sharper. A razor knife will usually make them sharper yet.

Bottom line is that there is a nick for both types of inlays in the cue world. There are people who want nice looking, affordable cues and don't mind sacrificing having slightly rounded inlays and saving a months rent on the cue purchase. There are others who demand sharp inlays and points and don't mind paying for it and of coarse you have the third type who want lots of hand work done on their cue but don't believe it should have to cost anymore than a plain cue or a Chinese import.

Dick

 

[rwomel]

Bottom line is that there is a nick for both types of inlays in the cue world. There are people who want nice looking, affordable cues and don't mind sacrificing having slightly rounded inlays and saving a months rent on the cue purchase. There are others who demand sharp inlays and points and don't mind paying for it and of coarse you have the third type who want lots of hand work done on their cue but don't believe it should have to cost anymore than a plain cue or a Chinese import.

Dick

Took the words right out of my mouth !
Wait in line for a few years, or get a jazzed up "pretty" cue pretty fast.
TIME = $$$
Now take that equation and apply it to most any business model.
There are many types of buyers now and many cuemakers are adjusting by adding models that fit the bill.
There are a lot more Fords and Chevys sold than BMWs and Mercedes
My 2 cents
Richard W

 

[billfishhead]

every day someone buys a schon with rounded edges. and they arent cheap. makes me wonder about profit margin. things would be damn expensive if they had shapr corners on the inlay work. heck my first Szamboti was less than a lot of schons

 

[PetreeCues]

Took the words right out of my mouth !
Wait in line for a few years, or get a jazzed up "pretty" cue pretty fast.
TIME = $$$
Now take that equation and apply it to most any business model.
There are many types of buyers now and many cuemakers are adjusting by adding models that fit the bill.
There are a lot more Fords and Chevys sold than BMWs and Mercedes
My 2 cents
Richard W

I know how to build a BMW but I can't find a bank that will finance my customers, so I have to build Fords and Chevys so that they can pay cash. =)

 

[Cue Crazy]

Took the words right out of my mouth !
Wait in line for a few years, or get a jazzed up "pretty" cue pretty fast.
TIME = $$$
Now take that equation and apply it to most any business model.
There are many types of buyers now and many cuemakers are adjusting by adding models that fit the bill.
There are a lot more Fords and Chevys sold than BMWs and Mercedes
My 2 cents
Richard W

I aggree also, and believe It's really more a matter of dollars & time. For the same reason there is a market for imports, there is a market for rounded inlays. Sharp corners, I like them also, but the truth is It can be quite a bit more work to knife them in, and some materials are easier to work with then others, but If the cue plays well I'm not so concerned about them, as it really has no effect on how the cue plays, as much as it does looks, time, and more money. Basically they just reach different markets. Some people seem to care less if they are rounded or not, and others want them sharp. I'm sure some makers do both, but price them appropriately.
Greg

 

[cueman]

I aggree also, and believe It's really more a matter of dollars & time.... Some people seem to care less if they are rounded or not, and others want them sharp. I'm sure some makers do both, but price them appropriately.
Greg

Yes we do both and yes we do charge appropiately!

 

[Cue Crazy]

Yes we do both and yes we do charge appropiately!

Thanks for the confirmation. I have done both Myself, but can't imagine charging anywhere near the same price, once I start selling them. You already know I'm using a pantograph, so by the time I have all My pockets cut out and males to fit in them, If I have any neck & back left, knifing them in still seems like another mountain to climb, and would depend on price as to if It is worth while. Granted some materials Might not seem so bad though, just depends on design I suppose.

 

[Chris' Cues]

If you had two identical cues, but one you spent an extra 10 hours , or more, sharpening corners, the customer would think you were crazy for charging extra money for that cue. He would either buy the rounded corner model, or at least try to dicker you down to the same price on the other one.
For me its not worth my time to gamble trying to dress one up with sharp corners, because its hard enough to sell a custom cue when a lot of league players think the cue they got from Marboro is a good cue.
With all the time already invested in a cue I would hate to get carried away knifing in corners and cause the inlay not to fit correctly. Now you have a more expensive cue with lower quality. I will stick with what works for me to insure the highest quality cue that I am comfortable building.
All my work is done with a pantograph which limits the number of inlay designs I can do, I always like people that want flames, scorpians, or some other object, and can't understand why you cant do it, and loose intrest when you say I don't have apattern for that.
I'll stop now.
Chris

 

[MVPCues]

I always like people that want flames, scorpians, or some other object, and can't understand why you cant do it, and loose intrest when you say I don't have apattern for that.
I'll stop now.
Chris

I will take a fire breathing dragon...nice sharp points everywhere...no decal...$200...

Kelly

p.s. Can you pay the postage?

 

[billfishhead]

if you want to do it inexpensively then do it like a local showed me,,,,,,,,,,,,,cut out the pockets shallow and use pieces of a bleach bottle for the inlay material,,,,,,,,,,,a couple coats of polyurathane and you are done

 

[BillYards]

if you want to do it inexpensively then do it like a local showed me,,,,,,,,,,,,,cut out the pockets shallow and use pieces of a bleach bottle for the inlay material,,,,,,,,,,,a couple coats of polyurathane and you are done

Very funny! Let's don't give away all the secrets! I heard that using pine wrapped in garbage bag and coated with poly makes an ebony cue....

 

[billfishhead]

you thought i was joking,,,,,,,,,the guy was dead serious,,,,,,,,,,,took all i could to keep a straight face

 

[BLACKHEARTCUES]

if you want to do it inexpensively then do it like a local showed me,,,,,,,,,,,,,cut out the pockets shallow and use pieces of a bleach bottle for the inlay material,,,,,,,,,,,a couple coats of polyurathane and you are done

On my 1st few cues, I used white washers, made from bleach bottles. I also used yellow & black ones, cut from plastic motor oil bottles...JER

 

[zeeder]

If you had two identical cues, but one you spent an extra 10 hours , or more, sharpening corners, the customer would think you were crazy for charging extra money for that cue. He would either buy the rounded corner model, or at least try to dicker you down to the same price on the other one.
Chris

I don't agree with this statement, or at the very least I feel it can't be made into an all-encompassing statement. For instance, when I quote a cue I specify that I want all the inlays sharp so the cuemaker can include that in their quote. If the cuemaker doesn't do sharp inlays, or doesn't do them well, I simply won't get inlays in the cue, or at least not any inlays which have points...lol.

As for the points I'm pretty much strictly a v-groove/full spliced kind of guy and I prefer recuts or Skip's hardwood veneers and I would only order a veneered cue from someone who does excellent veneer work where the glue lines don't, or barely, show. Even points are also very important to me. I firmly believe that a quality cuemaker should get paid for quality work and since I expect quality work I don't mind paying for it!

 

[BLACKHEARTCUES]

I don't agree with this statement, or at the very least I feel it can't be made into an all-encompassing statement. For instance, when I quote a cue I specify that I want all the inlays sharp so the cuemaker can include that in their quote. If the cuemaker doesn't do sharp inlays, or doesn't do them well, I simply won't get inlays in the cue, or at least not any inlays which have points...lol.

As for the points I'm pretty much strictly a v-groove/full spliced kind of guy and I prefer recuts or Skip's hardwood veneers and I would only order a veneered cue from someone who does excellent veneer work where the glue lines don't, or barely, show. Even points are also very important to me. I firmly believe that a quality cuemaker should get paid for quality work and since I expect quality work I don't mind paying for it!

You are not the average Q buyer. If you'll read the posts, on the different pool sites, you'll find dozens of players asking, "WHAT IS THE BEST Q FOR UNDER $200" or $300. Anyway, collectors are one thing, but the average player is cheap & wants to spend as little as possible & get as much as possible. They'll spend $50 a night on booze, but play with a borrowed Q. Believe me after 20 years of making Qs, you are not the average customer...JER

 

[bandido]

You are not the average Q buyer. If you'll read the posts, on the different pool sites, you'll find dozens of players asking, "WHAT IS THE BEST Q FOR UNDER $200" or $300. Anyway, collectors are one thing, but the average player is cheap & wants to spend as little as possible & get as much as possible. They'll spend $50 a night on booze, but play with a borrowed Q. Believe me after 20 years of making Qs, you are not the average customer...JER

This is so true! Unfortunately there is a glut of cuemakers there now that try and cater to this level then swing up to a higher price level. What I notice is that these makers low-end cue sytems bleed-over to their high-end series and that's where I think is where the dilema is. I've also learned, in my 20 yrs. in the craft, that if you undercut yourself then it will be real hard for you to get a commensurate exchange for your work.

It was and still is the same as is happening to some cuemakers here in the Philippines. They get in a financial bind or downtrend and they start selling to just get the capital back. When consumer desire for their product starts heating back up, they end up having a hard time justifying their prices because of the precedent that they have set. So what they're forced to do is cut back somewhere in the manufacturing process. Vicious cycle and very depressing feeling to be hindered, by economic dictates, in doing what you passionately do.

I'm happy where I stand right now, learned a lot of different aspects of the craft along the way, enlightened on what really is important in my life, adjusted my lifestyle and all in those 20 years. I've always believed that I'll get what's rightfully mine at the right time in my life so I just do and live in what I love.