Router Bit Questions?

Cue Crazy said:
Thanks for the info Dave,

They had 1/16 also but they were 3 wing too, besides them having no mandrel, I guess I was alittle frightened by them being so thin, and fear of one coming apart or something also.:o :p

I think My old bit is just dull, because I had the speeds working for Me before. I have had My router apart, and aggree on the bearing casings, the dremels are pretty much the same way. Another source of runnout can come from bottoming the shank out, so It does'nt center in the collet perfectly, I think your suppose to leave something in the range of 1/8 spacing from the bottom. I use a dremel for inlay also, so I have simular issues with It. I keep rechucking the endmill until I can see no runnout, and that seems to work for me. I plan on replacing that spindle in the future with a premium one.

With all that said, somehow the porter has worked well for me so far, and I can usually go from 400 to 600 as you mentioned with handles, so that's what I'm shooting for with shafts, but i'll have to see what happens. I would however like to have a nice spindle for that also, and will when I can spare the cash to afford one, for the reasons you mention, but most of all, the noise level is killing My ears. I had to buy a set of ear muffs, because It was giving me ear aches.:)

Btw How much for a Kress spindle? anything decent and quiet that I have seen is a grand or over usually. I guess it's just one of those things that are still a luxury for me, but I definatly want to upgrade.

Thanks Again, Greg
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Depending on where you can find them.........$3-400 is the going price but I used my first one heavily for approx. 3 yrs before sending out to rebuild. That's one of the pit falls...........had to send back to europe for the rebuild...4-6 weeks......ouch! So I just bought another for a spare.
Also.......the Kress is not really that much quieter than any other router but I took care of that with my "bomb shelter"....an enclosed shell over my tapering lathe........works two fold...kills the noise and contains the mess.
If I can't hear the baseball games I'm watching on TV I loose concentration on cue building!
 
Cue Crazy said:
Thanks for the info Dave,

They had 1/16 also but they were 3 wing too, besides them having no mandrel, I guess I was alittle frightened by them being so thin, and fear of one coming apart or something also.:o :p

I think My old bit is just dull, because I had the speeds working for Me before. I have had My router apart, and aggree on the bearing casings, the dremels are pretty much the same way. Another source of runnout can come from bottoming the shank out, so It does'nt center in the collet perfectly, I think your suppose to leave something in the range of 1/8 spacing from the bottom. I use a dremel for inlay also, so I have simular issues with It. I keep rechucking the endmill until I can see no runnout, and that seems to work for me. I plan on replacing that spindle in the future with a premium one.

With all that said, somehow the porter has worked well for me so far, and I can usually go from 400 to 600 as you mentioned with handles, so that's what I'm shooting for with shafts, but i'll have to see what happens. I would however like to have a nice spindle for that also, and will when I can spare the cash to afford one, for the reasons you mention, but most of all, the noise level is killing My ears. I had to buy a set of ear muffs, because It was giving me ear aches.:)

Btw How much for a Kress spindle? anything decent and quiet that I have seen is a grand or over usually. I guess it's just one of those things that are still a luxury for me, but I definatly want to upgrade.

Thanks Again, Greg
Click to expand...


Greg.......I used the porter cable for years......it will work for you. But they just got to be a pain for me after messing with them for a long time.
I probably bought on the average.......one a year and it seemed like I was always getting the bearings changed in mine.
It was just time for me to do an upgrade.

Good luck......
 
BarenbruggeCues said:
Depending on where you can find them.........$3-400 is the going price but I used my first one heavily for approx. 3 yrs before sending out to rebuild. That's one of the pit falls...........had to send back to europe for the rebuild...4-6 weeks......ouch! So I just bought another for a spare.
Also.......the Kress is not really that much quieter than any other router but I took care of that with my "bomb shelter"....an enclosed shell over my tapering lathe........works two fold...kills the noise and contains the mess.
If I can't hear the baseball games I'm watching on TV I loose concentration on cue building!
Click to expand...




Hmmm, That's not as bad price wise as some of the cnc spindles I've looked at. looks like a nice unit, and may be easier for me to spring the cost. Setup with the mounting collar too I see. You have to send It back to rebuild huh, guess they don't have a kit. I think I know someone that mentioned having one that needed rebuilt a while back, and asked me if I knew how to rebuild, but I had never seen them before, and could only tell them My experiences with what I had, and changing brushes and bearings out on those. If I remember correctly they said it was a good router though, and that was the only downfall. Think they said It was made in germany, but I could be mistaken.

The shell is a good idea, I want to do that also, but My tapering is'nt on a dedicated machine yet, so I was thinking of building a box with plexi that can just be dropped into place, and removed when not in use, and hook My dust collection up to that.

Thanks Dave, nice setup you have.



ragbug- I don't know when for sure, but yes I'll probably try one out. I'll give anything a try if there's a chance there's a better way ;) . It's raining on and off today, and I don't like to turn wood when it 's like that, but I'll try this new straight bit out tomorrow or the next day, and should atleast know if this was just a issue with a dull bit or not. I tried to do a third turn, with a bit that I have roughed with, so I'm thinking that may be all it is, but either way, I'll probably atleast try the wing cutters.

Thanks to everyone both here and behind the scenes for Your help, It is much apprietiated.:)

Greg C
 
Cue Crazy said:
Thanks Sheldon,
I just ran down to the store, and ended up picking up a porter cable 1" long straight bit to get me by for right now. I've never used their bits before, but It seems very sharp. They had 3 wing cutters, the largest of which was 1/4 at the tips, but they had no mandrels to mount the thing too, and I don't have one here, so I suppose I'll just order a good one that's thicker.
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Listen to Dave, he's on top of it for sure....
I make my own mandrels too, the ones you can buy cheap are rarely accurate.
I have some 2 wing cutters, might have to give em a try.... and thinner is probably going to be a bit easier to sharpen, and put less stress on bearings, etc.
 
BarenbruggeCues said:
Greg.......I used the porter cable for years......it will work for you. But they just got to be a pain for me after messing with them for a long time.
I probably bought on the average.......one a year and it seemed like I was always getting the bearings changed in mine.
It was just time for me to do an upgrade.

Good luck......
Click to expand...


Yes Sir, I know where Your coming from, same thing here, I hate stopping what i'm doing, and having to fiddle with something to get it going again. Mine is probably due for them now, because I can hear those bearings screaming. but can't feel any play at all in the spindle yet. Otherwise I would be thinking that may be the problem. They are'nt going to last much longer though, so I better start saving My pennies:p
 
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Sheldon said:
Listen to Dave, he's on top of it for sure....
I make my own mandrels too, the ones you can buy cheap are rarely accurate.
I have some 2 wing cutters, might have to give em a try.... and thinner is probably going to be a bit easier to sharpen, and put less stress on bearings, etc.
Click to expand...


Yeah I've seen some of his cues, and he does very nice work.

I don't know if I trust My metal machining skills that much yet to trust My own mandrel at those rpm's;) I certainly like the word cheap when it comes to price, but not at the risk of quality loss. A mandrel with a bunch of runout is no good to me either, so i guess that's where i should spend the bulk of My money, If it means i'll get better quality that is, but i guess that's not always the case.:)

Thanks
 
I use the Ryobi laminate trimmer.
With a two wing cutter, I can stop it in the middle of the cut and not be afraid of it taking a chunk off the wood.
With 4 and 6 winger, I have to back it off.
Now, only if these manual taper machines are built like Prewitts where the cutter is on top of the wood and the router is works off gravity ( not spring ), it'd be a cake to lift the router and place a plate over the taper bar.
 
Well guys, I went ahead and decided to sacrifice a shaft to figure it out. Sheared a pinion because I had my gib set too tight, and thought maybe that was the problem, turned out it was'nt, so I ran a pass with my feed speed bumped up a notch, definatly alot better, It ran clean, cutting nice and smooth, except for one small, shallow ring in the middle where the taper really starts to make it's incline, but nothing that 320 would'nt easily take out. That was without any support, and just letting It run by it'self. It got too late to run the router again, so tomorrow, I'm going to do a pass with the speed bumped up one more notch and see what happens. hopefully that does the trick, and I'll be a member of the 400 club again.:)
 
Cue Crazy said:
Well guys, I went ahead and decided to sacrifice a shaft to figure it out. Sheared a pinion because I had my gib set too tight, and thought maybe that was the problem, turned out it was'nt, so I ran a pass with my feed speed bumped up a notch, definatly alot better, It ran clean, cutting nice and smooth, except for one small, shallow ring in the middle where the taper really starts to make it's incline, but nothing that 320 would'nt easily take out. That was without any support, and just letting It run by it'self. It got too late to run the router again, so tomorrow, I'm going to do a pass with the speed bumped up one more notch and see what happens. hopefully that does the trick, and I'll be a member of the 400 club again.:)
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Don't get cheap.
Go get a Perske motor and real bits. :D
http://cgi.ebay.com/Perske-Spindle-...ryZ57122QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
 
Cue Crazy said:
:eek: :D :D :D My lathe would fall over like Fred Flintstones car with that big ol pork chop on It:p :D I could use a good anchor though, but that's alittle out of My price range;) .
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I use a Precise variable speed tool post grinder on my CNC. It's loud but not nearly as loud as a router and will run up from 0 to 75,000 rpm. I bought it used on flea-bay and it came with both .125 and a .250 colletts. Using the .125 collett it wasn't running very true so I had to get a new collett from Precise. The collett and a set of brushes was 185.00. There's supposed to be no measurable run out to 100,000ths but the tooling doesn't run that close.

Dick
 
rhncue said:
I use a Precise variable speed tool post grinder on my CNC. It's loud but not nearly as loud as a router and will run up from 0 to 75,000 rpm. I bought it used on flea-bay and it came with both .125 and a .250 colletts. Using the .125 collett it wasn't running very true so I had to get a new collett from Precise. The collett and a set of brushes was 185.00. There's supposed to be no measurable run out to 100,000ths but the tooling doesn't run that close.

Dick
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I just picked one up not long ago off the bay...........got a smokin deal on it. Only tops out 0- 45 thou R's though. It was in a mini drill press set up....a Super 65 spindle but all runs fine. Just have to do some upgrades on the collets and collet nut as it has the old style on it. Two collets, a collet nut and a new collet wrench is going to run me more than I paid to get the whole shebangee shipped to my door. I was geeked when it arrived. One of the best deals I've gotten off ebay in a long time.
Not sure what I'm going to do with it yet but I'm sure I'll find something for it to cut up!
 
wing cutters

hi.... i'm a woodworker/cabinetmaker........not a cue builder...but i've made a few cues (on a wood lathe !!!! )

i use a lot of 2, 3. 4 wing cutters 7/64 for the plastic tee moldings in the edge of countertops etc.......cutting 1/2 deep in particle board or plywood..never blew one up !!!

most of the time when routing a profile edge ( round over, chamfer, ogee etc) in solid lumber, i "climb feed" the bit. that is feeding the same direction as the bit rotates, instead of against the rotation (as the book teaches). this tends to push the wood fibers down as the cut is made....as opposed to lifting the fibers. i get a lot less (no) tearout !!! with a hand held router ya cant take a heavy cut or the router can grab and run at ya !!! gotta be careful !!


so if you have your router mounted on the compound of your lathe or whatever.........it can't get away!!! and won't lift the fibers.

i have also seen a cue builder with a bisquit joiner mounted on his compound
this has about a 4" dia 6 wing cutter about 1/4 wide......climb cutting, light cut, slow feed. glass smooth cut.....no chatter on shafts.

well.....some day i'mm gonna just hafta get an engine lathe !!
 
Router Bit Questions

Be really carefully with a wing cutter on a laminate trimmer. Most wing cutter's are rated at 12000 rpm. Read about a guy running one of the 2 inch everlasts at 30000 rpm, hit a Nickle Silver(really no silver in it.)and felt something wet on his stomach. Lifted his shirt and there was a small puncture wound. Fast trip to emergency room to remove carbide tip. Lucky it didn't hit anything important. Another safety item. I have my router behind the part. If it let's loose, it's into the wall or the wood hopefully. Leonard Bloodworth taught me that early on.
I use to use wing cutters, but have gone back to a straight cutter running at 24000 rpm. 5/16 diameter Bosch. Lowe's has them I believe. Best stock grind job I've found. Dave B. is correct, dullness or any type of build up will kill your cut.
 
Update

I received some good advice, made some changes in the setup & positioning that really seemed to help, and happy to say everything is above My expectations now. The shafts are coming out so smooth, there's no good reason for going below 400, and no rings at all. The best part Is I don't have support them manually, I can just let It run It'self through the passes.:)

Thanks for all the help,

Greg C
 
LOU'S CUE'S said:
and...so ??? what did ya change ???
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No big secret really, pretty much just what I mentioned, a new straight bit, and positioned My router as if I was using a wing cutter. Other then that, I just ajusted My feed. It works for Me so I'm happy. Might be able to take deeper cuts with a wing cutter, but hard for Me to see them cutting all that much smoother, if any at all.:)
 
so......these straight bits.........are they "straight" or spiral ??? helix


just a question. seems like the spiral would cut smoother ???


how bout like a metal working end mill ??? i dunno ??
 
Cue Crazy said:
No big secret really, pretty much just what I mentioned, a new straight bit, and positioned My router as if I was using a wing cutter. Other then that, I just ajusted My feed. It works for Me so I'm happy. Might be able to take deeper cuts with a wing cutter, but hard for Me to see them cutting all that much smoother, if any at all.:)
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The thin wing cutter cuts so smooth even on a 100 thou pass, you'd be amazed.
 
LOU'S CUE'S said:
so......these straight bits.........are they "straight" or spiral ??? helix


just a question. seems like the spiral would cut smoother ???


how bout like a metal working end mill ??? i dunno ??
Click to expand...



The one I'm using now is straight. I've never tried a spiral bit for turning, so I don't know how they would cut. Same thing goes for an endmill, never tried one of those for this either. They work well when I'm millling aluminum or something like that though, but other wise I have'nt tried them for turning wood.:)
 
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