RRR Casino - THROW US A BONE!

jason

jason

Unprofessional everything
Silver Member
I don't ever want to discourage any advertiser on AZ or promoter of pool, but I think some light should be shed for the best interest of the Robinson's Rancheria Resort Casino and the pool community.

The prize money for their advertised tournament is ridiculously low.

$500 First
$300 Second
$200 Third
___________
$1000.00

The entry fee is $25. A 64 man tournament would have a prize fund of $1600. This is a two day tournament with check in at 10am.

Here is my point: What incentive is there for the players? Unless your a local and packing a lunch, you have travel expenses, food, lodging, possibly quarters or greens fees. This is a lose, lose deal for players.

Robinson's, throw us a bone! Your going to make money off of food, lodging, and gambling as well.

Look at it this way...If everything was equal, you have a 1 out of 64 chance to win $475 (-$25 entry).

$500 First place
-$25 entry
-100 reasonable travel expenses
-$40 food (cheap)
-$70 estimated lodging (one day)
-$40 quarters/greens fee/misc
---------------
$225 profit best case scenario

I'm sure you have to be available for play at least 12 hours a day, so $225/24hrs = $9.38 an hour profit. :eek:

Let's not forget you have a 1/64 chance of making $9.38 an hour and thats not including travel time! Oh, did I mention you haven't stuck one coin in a slot yet? I think I would prefer togo to my local bar tournament and make a 2-3 hundred for a few hours work.

Just my 2¢ and that 2¢ will be staying in my pocket!

How does everyone else feel about this?

pooltourney0809-lg.jpg
 
jason said:
I don't ever want to discourage ...tournament would have a prize fund of $1600...What incentive is there for the players? ...$9.38 an hour profit...
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Sounds pretty cool for a recreational activity. I did a group bike ride, $50 to do it, free cookies, juice and water and mechanical support. No chance at getting any money back.

Does it bear reiteration? Pool is a not a career. Buyer beware.
 
Black-Balled said:
Sounds pretty cool for a recreational activity. I did a group bike ride, $50 to do it, free cookies, juice and water and mechanical support. No chance at getting any money back.

Does it bear reiteration? Pool is a not a career. Buyer beware.
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You are correct sir, buyer beware.

Even as an incentive for customers, it is weak. As a community of pool players that would like to see the sport grow, we shouldn't support this type of tournament. We need sponsors, not exploiters. They could and should add something. A lot more something.

The likely hood of getting even 64 players is so minimal that I wouldn't take the risk for even a recreational event.

I have no interest in visiting this casino. Wherever its at.
 
jason said:
You are correct sir, buyer beware.

Even as an incentive for customers, it is weak. As a community of pool players that would like to see the sport grow, we shouldn't support this type of tournament. We need sponsors, not exploiters. They could and should add something. A lot more something.

The likely hood of getting even 64 players is so minimal that I wouldn't take the risk for even a recreational event.

I have no interest in visiting this casino. Wherever its at.
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I hear ya, Mon! I will also not be there!

But, support for the event could result in further events by the promo group.

Failure breeds failure...
 
Black-Balled said:
I hear ya, Mon! I will also not be there!

But, support for the event could result in further events by the promo group.

Failure breeds failure...
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Who is the promo group or is the Casino trying to do it themselves?

I have seen this scenario too often.

If someone outside the casino is promoting this, it is clearly their fault.
 
RRR has a history of running these events and being for the most part successful.

Very poor flyer. There isn't any information about what kind of tables, format or what rules.

But, with that said, the last two events that RRR had using this flyer format and prize money, brought in a lot of players from all over Northern California.

It is a simple decision to make. If you don't feel you will be competitive or have a good return on your money, DON'T GO.

There are plenty of other tournaments to play in this month in the Bay Area and in Sacramento and also Reno.
 
Tom In Cincy said:
RRR has a history of running these events and being for the most part successful.

Very poor flyer. There isn't any information about what kind of tables, format or what rules.

But, with that said, the last two events that RRR had using this flyer format and prize money, brought in a lot of players from all over Northern California.

It is a simple decision to make. If you don't feel you will be competitive or have a good return on your money, DON'T GO.

There are plenty of other tournaments to play in this month in the Bay Area and in Sacramento and also Reno.
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Ultimately it is just a business decision for them(RRR). They are doing what is in their best interest not the pool players. Unfortunately for the players, it's a lose-lose deal. They obviously have enough pool knowledge to advertise here, but I wonder who is running the tournament. Is it the casino or someone else? Maybe they just want a bunch of hacks. Hell, casinos are built on fools money anyway right?

As a player and someone who truly would like to see pool progress, this sickens me.
 
I know of about 15 or so players that went about a month or so ago. Most of them were from the Bay Area. A Sacramento player won the event.

The casino provided the tables. The TD was a respected player.

Ultimately it is a business decision for you also.

jason said:
Ultimately it is just a business decision for them(RRR). They are doing what is in their best interest not the pool players. Unfortunately for the players, it's a lose-lose deal. They obviously have enough pool knowledge to advertise here, but I wonder who is running the tournament. Is it the casino or someone else? Maybe they just want a bunch of hacks. Hell, casinos are built on fools money anyway right?

As a player and someone who truly would like to see pool progress, this sickens me.
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I'm not trying to make a living playing pool and I do consider it entertainment, but I would much rather spend my money at the BCA or Derby with a small chance to win something.

I have never understood why people will play in the APA amateur for a chance to win nothing.

Most people only have a vacation budget and time limit. This tournament is advertising nationally and internationally via AZ. I think for the most part, they will only draw local players.

Okay, I'll leave this topic alone now! :o

Thanks for the replies!
 
for what it's worth, Jason, I agree with you. But I think purposes are crossed.

This tournament was once the best kept secret, with maybe 3 or 4 good players, and a lot of added money, paid deep. The field was a lot larger about two years ago, filled with people who were at various stages of learning the league rules, but who really loved their beer and loud music. This last time it was maybe 20 Big Boys and only 8 "wishwecould's" and barplayers. I think everyone was very, very surprised to see so many of each other... As for the locals, I think there were only three actually playing, and these clearly and vocally felt that the poolplayers were not having enough "fun," too. : )

It's definitely in the process of change. Remember it's in a very strange, out- of- the- way place with a distinct local population, and it IS a business- but not a pool- related business, at that.

They changed from having a large number of tables in a main, carpeted conference room to having 5 barboxes stuck very close together on the dancefloor of the bar. They slowly changed the payout from a rather generously deep field to just the top 4 in the last tourney, and now to just the top 3 in this one. Finally, they've changed the length of the races on the very day of the tourney each time I have been there.

Considering all of the progressively "strange" changes they've made over the run of this tournament, I don't think their primary goal is to bring in all poolplayers- I think they want to bring in more locals, and to keep those locals coming back regularly. Especially the drinkers.

Having a lot of out- of- towners who come in to storm the tournament, but who don't come back for a weekend of partying when there is no tournament, is not their goal. Dude. Pool isn't even their goal.

Witness the gift bags they give to every player. Logo clothing stuff and coupons. They want you to advertise them and to come back with your coupons. Nice gift bags, yeah, but me advertising for them in Sac is next to useless, and the only coupon I ever used was the "buy one dinner, get the other 1/2 off." Gift bags are appreciated most by locals.

And. I know the guy who won it last, too. I don't necessarily know if he'd go running back... Maybe. Maybe not. But I think the tourney is going to have to swing the more conservative, "local drinkers only" route and gather that strong following back before it can swing back to a happy medium that will encourage outsiders again.
 
Its none of my business but...

Jason please dont take this the wrong way because I see your point about RRR having only an interest in there casino making money its no different than the Sands or the Riviera. Are you sure your just not blasting RRR because you are no longer the tournament director because of an argument you got into with a tribal member? Again its none of my business but it just sounds like you are blasting them for no real reason, other casinos do it why cant they? But then again I can go to a casino and not gamble.
 
CaPoolFan said:
Jason please dont take this the wrong way because I see your point about RRR having only an interest in there casino making money its no different than the Sands or the Riviera. Are you sure your just not blasting RRR because you are no longer the tournament director because of an argument you got into with a tribal member? Again its none of my business but it just sounds like you are blasting them for no real reason, other casinos do it why cant they? But then again I can go to a casino and not gamble.
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Let me make this clear. I have no affiliation with the RRR and no say in their tournament. I have never attended their tournament or visited their casino. It is not my intention of "blasting" them by any means. I have never heard of the RRR before seeing their ad here on AZ.

I am in full support of casinos holding pool tournaments. I also support them in making a profit.

My interest here is in a fair deal and the best interest of pool in general. If they generate a field of 64 players, they are not even paying back 100% of the entry fees.

All I am saying is that from a players perspective this is pathetic.
 
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