Rule Clarification

K

Ky Boy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So, I had a shot come up during the DCC 9 ball event that even after asking at the desk I am still reluctant to accept. Maybe it's because I and most everyone else I talked to said it should have been a foul.

Scenario;

During a game I played a safety in which I froze the 6 ball to a rail. I declared it frozen as the opponent came to the table for his inning. I have always played frozen ball shots like this so as to drive either the OB or CB OR other ball after a legal hit) to a different rail than which the OB is frozen too.


However, he simply nipped the 6 ball with the CB in which the CB made contact with the same rail the 6 was frozen. Nothing was driven to a different rail.

Like I stated above, frozen balls have always been driven to a dif rail or at the very least eh CB is driven to a dif rail after making a legal hit in tourneys and such locally.


Thanks for the help in clarifying this. I looked for the rule but could not find it regarding this scenario. Maybe MOST of the folks I have shot pool with for years have been playing it all wrong as well so that's why I want more input.


Gary
 
My understanding is that a frozen object ball would have to be driven into a different rail, or the cue ball would have to contact any rail after contacting the OB.

Sounds like a legal shot to me.
 
You've been playing it wrong.The cball does not have to hit a "diff" I hit the same shot 10 or 15 times at the dcc. Comes up alot in banks and one pocket. John B.
 
This is a legal hit because the cue ball hit the object ball and then contacted a rail. The separate rail scenario only applies to the object ball. If you hit the frozen object ball and the cueball never hits a rail then the object ball would have to travel to a different rail to avoid a foul.
 
again incorrect

ktrepal85 said:
This is a legal hit because the cue ball hit the object ball and then contacted a rail. The separate rail scenario only applies to the object ball. If you hit the frozen object ball and the cueball never hits a rail then the object ball would have to travel to a different rail to avoid a foul.
Click to expand...

Look at this:
WPA Standarized

6.3 No Rail after Contact
If no ball is pocketed on a shot, the cue ball must contact an object ball, and after that contact at least one ball (cue ball or any object ball) must be driven to a rail, or the shot is a foul. (See 8.4 Driven to a Rail.)

and

8.4 Driven to a Rail
A ball is said to be driven to a rail if it is not touching that rail and then touches that rail. A ball touching at the start of a shot (said to be “frozen” to the rail) is not considered driven to that rail unless it leaves the rail and returns. A ball that is pocketed or driven off the table is also considered to have been driven to a rail. A ball is assumed not to be frozen to any rail unless it is declared frozen by the referee, the shooter, or the opponent. See also Regulation 27, Calling Frozen Balls.
 
Last edited:
Atlatlien said:
My understanding is that a frozen object ball would have to be driven into a different rail, or the cue ball would have to contact any rail after contacting the OB.

Sounds like a legal shot to me.
Click to expand...


I agree.................cue ball made contact with the ball on first. The cue ball can hit any rail (including the same rail) for the shot to be legal.
 
Thanks a lot for the input everyone!

I (and quite a few others) have been playing this shot wrong for YEARS! :angry:

Now, I dread explaining it to someone else in a tourney who has been playing it the same I have for all this time and having them believe me!! :embarrassed2:

Gary
 
Ky Boy said:
Thanks a lot for the input everyone!

I (and quite a few others) have been playing this shot wrong for YEARS! :angry:

Now, I dread explaining it to someone else in a tourney who has been playing it the same I have for all this time and having them believe me!! :embarrassed2:

Gary
Click to expand...

Another thing to take note of is that there are SIX rails. So, if a ball is frozen to a side rail, such as near the side pocket, it is legal to shoot it up the rail and have it hit the rail past the side pocket.

shot #6 http://billiards.colostate.edu/normal_videos/new/NVB-61.htm
http://billiards.colostate.edu/normal_videos/new/NVB-61.htm
 
to be precise - once again

Neil said:
Another thing to take note of is that there are SIX rails. So, if a ball is frozen to a side rail, such as near the side pocket, it is legal to shoot it up the rail and have it hit the rail past the side pocket.

shot #6 http://billiards.colostate.edu/normal_videos/new/NVB-61.htm
http://billiards.colostate.edu/normal_videos/new/NVB-61.htm
Click to expand...

Since the 01/01/2008 with the World Standarized Rules, it does not make any technical difference but, to be precise, the pool (pocket billiards) table has:

4 (FOUR) rails [foot rail, head rail, and two side rails]

and

6 (SIX) cushions.

The term cushion is used more in British English. Rail is often used as a colloquialism for a cushion, so here comes the confusion :)
 
Last edited:
I saw a situation regarding who calls the ball frozen to the rail. Two guys are tapping the 8-Ball trying to freeze it to the rail. "Joe" makes his attempt and "Mike" is right on it and declares that the ball is frozen to the rail. Then he taps the 8 again. His argument was that the opponent must call it frozen before shooting. Joes doesn't call it because Mike had said it was.

Low class move, that won the game on a technicality but should have been unsportsmanlike conduct and sent Mike home.
 
Inaction said:
I saw a situation regarding who calls the ball frozen to the rail. Two guys are tapping the 8-Ball trying to freeze it to the rail. "Joe" makes his attempt and "Mike" is right on it and declares that the ball is frozen to the rail. Then he taps the 8 again. His argument was that the opponent must call it frozen before shooting. Joes doesn't call it because Mike had said it was.

Low class move, that won the game on a technicality but should have been unsportsmanlike conduct and sent Mike home.
Click to expand...

That is a low blow for sure!

I could have won several games due to the do not concede rule in effect but chose to just notify the opponent for future reference rather than invoke it.


I ran into some real pieces of work this year at DCC so it's no surprise. While I have never cheated in my life, I was accused of it this year by an unscrupulous player. Ironically, he was telling me before we played how he plays with one of the pro level players often and how much admiration he had for that pro player for his honesty and unwillingness to pull moves and such.

I guess he still has a lot to learn!:rolleyes:



Gary
 
If I am correct the rules played by APA say that you must drive either the cue ball or the object ball to a different rail. That is the only place I have heard of this being used that way.
 
Up until someone corrected me several years ago, I was also convinced that the rule was that you needed to hit another rail with either ball. I don't know if there was an older version of a rulebook that stated this, because I can remember reading it somewhere, and many players also played it same way.

Also, I checked the APA rulebook and it says you can hit any rail with the cueball.

From the APA rulebook:
"Once it is agreed the ball is frozen the player
must drive the object ball to another rail (of course, it
could hit another ball, which in turn hits a rail), or
drive the cue ball to a rail after it touches the object
ball."
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top