Rule on 'assisting another' question

S

SKUNKBOY

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Had a situation come up last night. A player had to shoot over a ball. Both were in the middle of the table so the player had to climb on the table (one foot on the ground so that was OK). But the light was interferring with his shot (cue). He asked somebody to hold the light out of the way, which somebody did. Is this allowed...assisting another player?

I cannot seem to find the rule in the current WPA rules but I know I read it before the new rules (format) came out a couple of years ago. I saw the same situation at a National Tournament and again at a State Tournament...the referees in both cases ruled that no one can assist another by holding the light out of the way. Can someone point me to the rule...if it still exists in writting...or at least give me your 'opinion' of the situation.

Thanks...Ken
 
SKUNKBOY said:
Had a situation come up last night. A player had to shoot over a ball. Both were in the middle of the table so the player had to climb on the table (one foot on the ground so that was OK). But the light was interferring with his shot (cue). He asked somebody to hold the light out of the way, which somebody did. Is this allowed...assisting another player?

I cannot seem to find the rule in the current WPA rules but I know I read it before the new rules (format) came out a couple of years ago. I saw the same situation at a National Tournament and again at a State Tournament...the referees in both cases ruled that no one can assist another by holding the light out of the way. Can someone point me to the rule...if it still exists in writting...or at least give me your 'opinion' of the situation.

Thanks...Ken
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do not know the exact point in the rules but I could see that the lights are considered part of the table-fixtures and can not be interfered with.
Having said that....I would probably help....just seems the right thing to do...
 
The WPA Rule on lights:

15. Lights
The bed and rails of the table must receive at least 520 lux (48 footcandles) of light at every point. A screen or reflector configuration is advised so that the center of the table does not receive noticeably more lighting than the rails and the corners of the table. If the light fixture above the table may be moved aside (referee), the minimum height of the
fixture should be no lower than 40 inches [1.016 m] above the bed of the table. If the light fixture above the table is non-movable, the fixture should be no lower than 65 inches [1.65 m] above the bed of the table. The intensity of any directed light on the players at the table should not be blinding. Blinding light starts at 5000 lux (465 footcandles) direct view. The rest of the venue (bleachers, etc.) should receive at least 50 lux (5 footcandles) of light.
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The bolded text is what I'm not sure of. I think it MIGHT imply the referee can hold a light fixture during a shot but I'm not sure.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
The WPA Rule on lights:



The bolded text is what I'm not sure of. I think it MIGHT imply the referee can hold a light fixture during a shot but I'm not sure.
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I'd read the rule the same way. Otherwise, why put in different specifications for light heights if they are movable or not.
 
Common sense and courtesy

Had to make a grand masse shot in a tournament...the ceiling was too low.
My opponent held the ceiling tile up with his cue so I could shoot.
He would have held the light shade if needed.
Years ago a window was held open in tight quarters in a big $ game.

If a ref,a TD,an organization, or a rule book forbade this.....
...I would give them zero credibility
 
I would also help someone in this situation. It just seems like the right thing to do.
 
I would help my opponent in that situation no matter what the rule.
 
What Mojoe said. Unless you're a total jackhole. Then I'd hold the light until you were about to shoot and swing it into your head/cue and say "my bad".
 
I remember seeing this come up (possibly at BCA nationals) and the referee held the light aside for the shooter.
 
Hmm

Duane Tuula said:
I remember seeing this come up (possibly at BCA nationals) and the referee held the light aside for the shooter.
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That is more reasonable. Cause I'd let ya do it, rule or no rule, but I ain't holden the dern thing fer ya !!
 
Thanks for the opinions guys. Sounds like a bunch of pretty generous fellas here. I'd still like to hear the rule from one of the rule maker though. I know you're on here.

I just don't know where to draw the line as far as how much 'outside assistance' could/should be allowed.

Thanks again...Ken
 
The rule is actually in the Regulations HERE. Since there was probably no referee, I don't see anything wrong with enlisting some random party or even the opponent to hold the light. Here is the text:

8. Instructions for Referees
The referee will determine all matters of fact relating to the rules, maintain fair playing conditions, call fouls, and take other action as required by these rules. The referee will suspend play when conditions do not permit fair play. Play will also be suspended when a call or ruling is being disputed. The referee will announce fouls and other specific situations as required by the rules. He will answer questions as required by the rules on matters such as foul count. He must not give advice on the application of the rules, or other points of play on which he is not required by the rules to speak. He may assist the player by getting and replacing the mechanical bridge. If necessary for the shot, the referee or a deputy may hold the light fixture out of the way.
When a game has a three-foul rule, the referee should note to the players any second foul at the time that it occurs and also when the player who is on two fouls returns to the table. The first warning is not required by the rules but is meant to prevent later misunderstandings. If there is a scoreboard on which the foul count is visible to the players, it satisfies the warning requirement.​
 
Thank you very much Mr. Jewett, that is exactly what I was looking for. I just didn't read the Instruction to Referees part in the WPA Rules. Seems there were a couple of referees in my past experiences that were misinformed on this rule. I'll make a mental note of the rule.

Thanks again...Ken
 
SKUNKBOY said:
Thank you very much Mr. Jewett, that is exactly what I was looking for. I just didn't read the Instruction to Referees part in the WPA Rules. Seems there were a couple of referees in my past experiences that were misinformed on this rule. I'll make a mental note of the rule.

Thanks again...Ken
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You're certainly welcome. Another situation I've seen was when there was sunlight coming through a window and bothering the players on some shots. The other player stood in the path of the light (which was otherwise hard to block).
 
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