rules for ball jumping

armoworrior

armoworrior

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I regularly play on a standard bar sized table (the smaller table). we have alot of beginner players that play on this table and from time to time we get a few that will jump the cue ball over another to hit their object ball using the "scoop technique" instead of the through the center 45 degree to 30 degree "proper technique". ive looked threw the BCAPL rule book and a few others about ball jumping. So the question is, which technique is legal? and where is this spelled out. I do know that you have to strike the cue in one motion and not push through the cue or use any other part of the cue stick to cause an action that is not a solid contact of the cue that cause an action on to the cue that cause it to move in such a way that the cue contacts the object ball in such a way that it can not be considered a strike. just like when you have the object ball frozen to the rail close to a pocket and the cue ball is frozen to said object ball at a 90 degree angle and if you were to shoot the cue down to the far rail could cause a scratch or striking the ball head on would cause a double kiss. you couldnt push the ball to create a spin on the cue ball which in turn would cause friction to the object ball and basically throw it into the pocket. sorry this is so long just trying to look for some clerification.
 
armoworrior said:
I regularly play on a standard bar sized table (the smaller table). we have alot of beginner players that play on this table and from time to time we get a few that will jump the cue ball over another to hit their object ball using the "scoop technique" instead of the through the center 45 degree to 30 degree "proper technique". ive looked threw the BCAPL rule book and a few others about ball jumping. So the question is, which technique is legal? and where is this spelled out. I do know that you have to strike the cue in one motion and not push through the cue or use any other part of the cue stick to cause an action that is not a solid contact of the cue that cause an action on to the cue that cause it to move in such a way that the cue contacts the object ball in such a way that it can not be considered a strike. just like when you have the object ball frozen to the rail close to a pocket and the cue ball is frozen to said object ball at a 90 degree angle and if you were to shoot the cue down to the far rail could cause a scratch or striking the ball head on would cause a double kiss. you couldnt push the ball to create a spin on the cue ball which in turn would cause friction to the object ball and basically throw it into the pocket. sorry this is so long just trying to look for some clerification.
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In a legal jump shot you have to hit the cueball above center, there is no scooping under the cueball to shovel it up in the air. You can hit the cueball at any angle as long as it is above certer. If you hit about 35 degrees the cueball comes of the table at the no more than 35 degrees so it climbs slower. When you need to jump a close ball you need to jack up the cue to more vertical, maybe 85 degrees.

Jump shots done correctly don't "trap" the cueball. It deflects off the slate. You hit it with a crisp stroke, using a phemolic or hard leather tip makes it a lot easier.

Hard to jump with a soft leather tip, takes a perfect stroke. I shoot overhand, "dart" style. The stroke is like knocking on a door, it's all wrist, no upper arm motion at all.
 
D WEATHERSBY II said:
From BCA Rule Book

1-34 Jump Shots and Massé Shots
1. Jump shots are legal shots. However, it is a foul if you intentionally cause the cue ball
to rise off the bed of the table by "digging under" or "scooping" the cue ball with the cue.
If such a motion is unintentional, it is considered a miscue, and not a foul in and of itself.
(AR p. 84)

http://www.playbca.com/downloads/rulebook/completerulebook.aspx
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The key on the rule for "scooping" the cuebal is it's is not a foul if it's done unintentionally. So if you hit the cueball low, badly and make it jump it's not a foul. Lining up to shovel jump is not the same thing.
 
From the BCA rules:

1-34 Jump Shots and Massé Shots
1. Jump shots are legal shots. However, it is a foul if you intentionally cause the cue ball
to rise off the bed of the table by "digging under" or "scooping" the cue ball with the cue.
If such a motion is unintentional, it is considered a miscue, and not a foul in and of itself.
(AR p. 84)

From VNEA rules:

9. ILLEGAL JUMPING OF BALL. It is a foul if a player strikes the cue ball below center (“digs under” it) and intentionally causes it to rise off the bed of the table in an effort to clear an obstructing ball. Such jumping action may occasionally occur accidentally, and such “jumps” are not to be considered fouls on their face; they may still be ruled foul strokes, if for example the ferrule or cue shaft makes contact with the cue ball in the course of the shot.

From WPA rules:

8.16 Jump Shot
A jump shot is one in which the cue ball is made to go over an intervening obstacle such as an object ball or part of the cushion. Whether such a shot is legal depends on how it is accomplished and the intention of the shooter. Usually a legal jump shot is played by elevating the cue stick and driving the cue ball down into the playing surface from which it rebounds.

None allow "scooping" a ball off the table, although the WPA is a little vague.
 
I do use the above the center point jumps and also do have a jump/break cue that has a phenalic tip. and i also use the dart wrist motion to do my jump shots. but i am still experimenting with how high and hard i can actually strike the cue ball for a jump. but alot of these guys at the bar just like questioning things that other people say about rules. and also think they try to ruin the new table we just got. one of the bartenders and myself, i dont actually work there, are the only two people that actually care about what happens to the table. before this table we had an old 9 foot table that basically needed all the slate rails and felt replaced.
 
also i printed the whole rule book so no one tries questioning the rules anymore. like scratching off the break and sinking the 8-ball off of the break. being an instant loss or instant win. one guy there is an airforce guy and keeps saying oh you just scratched off the break you lose my turn. both people playing turn and look at him with the GTFO look.
 
i want to bet high with anyone who scoops the rock. real high. im a lamb killer now.
 
Fatboy said:
i want to bet high with anyone who scoops the rock. real high. im a lamb killer now.
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if the bar didnt have signs posted no betting for money with other legal jargon i would bet at that bar. i just amazed that someone wouldnt want to better their own level of play by making shots properly or atleast taking the effort to learn how. some people are too stuck in their backwards thinking. and if they ruin the felt on this new table by ripping or putting any more drinks on the table they are either going to pay for new felt or to get it cleaned by a professional.
 
armoworrior said:
if the bar didnt have signs posted no betting for money with other legal jargon i would bet at that bar. i just amazed that someone wouldnt want to better their own level of play by making shots properly or atleast taking the effort to learn how. some people are too stuck in their backwards thinking. and if they ruin the felt on this new table by ripping or putting any more drinks on the table they are either going to pay for new felt or to get it cleaned by a professional.
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i was just joking around,

all good gambling joints have a "no gambling" sign, thats the first thing to look for in a joint, if that sign is missing there is no action. i aint ever got popped for betting or seen anyone get popped

As far as damaging the cloth, shooting down on the CB can put holes in the cloth i have put a few in over the past 28 years, a few times on brand new cloth with a miscue, maybe 5-6 times in my life. And seen more than that happen, it really happens on Masse shots, we have tore the hell out of a table a few times when we knew we were going to have it recovered soon, Mike Massey comes thru you know he has been there, he rips them u real good, still amazing to watch him
 
Well, depends if they are playing house rules it just might not be an illegal shot for them since you said they were beginner pool players. I think I read a book that that scoops hot was really never illegal but I could of misunderstood what I read.
 
Fatboy said:
i was just joking around,

all good gambling joints have a "no gambling" sign, thats the first thing to look for in a joint, if that sign is missing there is no action. i aint ever got popped for betting or seen anyone get popped

As far as damaging the cloth, shooting down on the CB can put holes in the cloth i have put a few in over the past 28 years, a few times on brand new cloth with a miscue, maybe 5-6 times in my life. And seen more than that happen, it really happens on Masse shots, we have tore the hell out of a table a few times when we knew we were going to have it recovered soon, Mike Massey comes thru you know he has been there, he rips them u real good, still amazing to watch him
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i do get the joking part, on occasion I will bet on a game. ive been pretty good at my jumps lately. i made a really nice jump shot the other day. it was a jump with a cut. the guys i was playing with were really surprised that i made the shot and even more that i called it.
 
armoworrior said:
i do get the joking part, on occasion I will bet on a game. ive been pretty good at my jumps lately. i made a really nice jump shot the other day. it was a jump with a cut. the guys i was playing with were really surprised that i made the shot and even more that i called it.
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oh good, always feel great when a jump shot goes in, its like drugs(I dont use drugs) but making a jump shot is a high. Keep practicing...there are some VERY strong WORLD CLASS players right here to help you, i play below them but aint helpless(most of the time)
 
JoseV said:
Well, depends if they are playing house rules it just might not be an illegal shot for them since you said they were beginner pool players. I think I read a book that that scoops hot was really never illegal but I could of misunderstood what I read.
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the people that usually play there know that the scoop shots are illegal shots but some try to do it anyways until one of the regulars catch them doing it because the usually hit the table with the tip of the cue stick. they are just being A$$#@%%$ about it.
 
i know that i do play at a slightly higher level then most of the guys at the bar. which at times i dont feel like its fair to play them. but, how else are they going to step up their game if they are not playing someone that is better than them.
 
so I was playing around with the house cues and my jump cue trying to get a proper jump out of the house cues. it's near impossible to get the ball to jump and I was doing light to hard hits to try to get a jump out if it what so ever. I know they have softer tips but even with them being so compacted by constant play nothing but a few inches if that. you would think something more than that.
 
AAplayr said:
In a legal jump shot you have to hit the cueball above center, there is no scooping under the cueball to shovel it up in the air. You can hit the cueball at any angle as long as it is above certer. If you hit about 35 degrees the cueball comes of the table at the no more than 35 degrees so it climbs slower. When you need to jump a close ball you need to jack up the cue to more vertical, maybe 85 degrees.

Jump shots done correctly don't "trap" the cueball. It deflects off the slate. You hit it with a crisp stroke, using a phemolic or hard leather tip makes it a lot easier.

Hard to jump with a soft leather tip, takes a perfect stroke. I shoot overhand, "dart" style. The stroke is like knocking on a door, it's all wrist, no upper arm motion at all.
Click to expand...

It has nothing to do with a horizontal enter of a cue ball. Watch Shane when he is drawing the cueball while jumping. The rule is striking down on the cue ball, and not scooping, which can be done below the horizontal axis



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
robsnotes4u said:
It has nothing to do with a horizontal enter of a cue ball. Watch Shane when he is drawing the cueball while jumping. The rule is striking down on the cue ball, and not scooping, which can be done below the horizontal axis



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Click to expand...

well i can do that but i cant do it with a house cue. I've tried everything and the only reason why I've been trying it with a house cue is so i can figure at what angle it is possible to jump and not scoop or shovel a cue ball into an object ball. this is exactly why i bought a jump/break cue with a phenolic tip.
 
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