Rules question - please help

[Williebetmore]

For 14.1, need definitions of when cue ball is in the kitchen (is it the base of the ball that must be inside the headstring?), and when is an object ball out of the kitchen and legal to shoot with ball in hand (does the entire object ball have to be outside the kitchen, even the edge of the ball).

I thought the 2008 revision of standardized rules said the cue ball base had to be inside the head string, and the object ball had to be completely outside the kitchen with not even an edge hanging over the line; but I could not find ANY definition of what is in and what is out for cue ball and object ball. Please refer me to the appropriate rule

HELP!!!!!!!! THANKS!!!!!!!

 

[AtLarge]

For 14.1, need definitions of when cue ball is in the kitchen (is it the base of the ball that must be inside the headstring?), and when is an object ball out of the kitchen and legal to shoot with ball in hand (does the entire object ball have to be outside the kitchen, even the edge of the ball).

I thought the 2008 revision of standardized rules said the cue ball base had to be inside the head string, and the object ball had to be completely outside the kitchen with not even an edge hanging over the line; but I could not find ANY definition of what is in and what is out for cue ball and object ball. Please refer me to the appropriate rule

HELP!!!!!!!! THANKS!!!!!!!

Yes, the CB must be behind the head string (not on it), but the ball you are shooting at can be on or past the head string. Here are sections from the WPA (World-Standardized) rules that, together, should make this clear:

8.1 Parts of the Table
... Behind the head string is the area between the head rail and the head string, not including the head string. ...

8.13 Position of Balls
The position of a ball is determined by the projection of its center vertically downward onto the playing surface. A ball is said to be placed on a line or spot when its center is placed directly over that line or spot.

6.11 Bad Play from Behind the Head String
When the cue ball is in hand behind the head string, and the first ball the cue ball contacts is also behind the head string, the shot is a foul unless the cue ball crosses the head string before that contact. If such a shot is intentional, it is unsportsmanlike conduct.
The cue ball must either cross the head string or contact a ball in front of or on the head string or the shot is a foul, and the cue ball is in hand for the following player according to the rules of the specific game.

 

[Rasputin]

Yes, the CB must be behind the head string (not on it), but the ball you are shooting at can be on or past the head string. Here are sections from the WPA (World-Standardized) rules that, together, should make this clear:

8.1 Parts of the Table
... Behind the head string is the area between the head rail and the head string, not including the head string. ...

8.13 Position of Balls
The position of a ball is determined by the projection of its center vertically downward onto the playing surface. A ball is said to be placed on a line or spot when its center is placed directly over that line or spot.

6.11 Bad Play from Behind the Head String
When the cue ball is in hand behind the head string, and the first ball the cue ball contacts is also behind the head string, the shot is a foul unless the cue ball crosses the head string before that contact. If such a shot is intentional, it is unsportsmanlike conduct.
The cue ball must either cross the head string or contact a ball in front of or on the head string or the shot is a foul, and the cue ball is in hand for the following player according to the rules of the specific game.

The above is correct. Whether a ball is ''behind the head string'' or not is always decided by the point where the ball touches the table.

The head string itself is NOT considered as a part of the ''area behind the head string'', or the ''breaking area'' or the ''kitchen''.

References: http://www.wpa-pool.com/web/the_rules_of_play

It is not a big deal to read the rules. Please do.

 

[PETROBOY]

I always thought it was more then Half the ball outside the kitchen was counted as past the line


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[Rasputin]

I always thought it was more then Half the ball outside the kitchen was counted as past the line


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Well that is the same as looking at the contact point with the table. Though in this case it's not more than half a ball, but exactly half a ball outside the kitchen is out of the kitchen.

 

[hang-the-9]

For 14.1, need definitions of when cue ball is in the kitchen (is it the base of the ball that must be inside the headstring?), and when is an object ball out of the kitchen and legal to shoot with ball in hand (does the entire object ball have to be outside the kitchen, even the edge of the ball).

I thought the 2008 revision of standardized rules said the cue ball base had to be inside the head string, and the object ball had to be completely outside the kitchen with not even an edge hanging over the line; but I could not find ANY definition of what is in and what is out for cue ball and object ball. Please refer me to the appropriate rule

HELP!!!!!!!! THANKS!!!!!!!

I think the "real" rule is that where the ball lies is based on where it touches the cloth.
The argument I use when people want to use the full ball location is "well if I hang up a ball and the ball is hanging over the edge of the pocket, and you say the location of it is where the outside edge is, then the ball is located IN the pocket so I can just drop it in".