Rules Question

[justjames]

im not sure what you’re trying to say with this statement.

I think its a reflection on the idea of micro-measurement in a game.

The general rules of billiards are such that micro-measurement is not necessary since it can not be easily achieved at any given moment. For example, on some shots in a game of 8-ball you may be able to clearly see if your last object ball falls before the 8-ball if they are pocketed on the same shot. That would fulfill the rule requirements of pocketing all the balls of your numerical group before pocketing the 8-ball. However, on some shots they may fall so closely together that without a laser measuring device it would be impossible to tell which actually fell first. To avoid the entire argument the rule was made that the 8-ball can not be pocketed on the same shot as a ball from your numerical group. Rather than figure out a way to be accurate enough the rule made the shot illegal - problem solved.

As far as racks are concerned, I don't know of a specific rule that states where the rack must be placed or how close it needs to be to the intersection of the foot string and the long axis of the table. I do know that whenever possible the rack should be on the spot. If the spot is damaged and making a tight rack is not possible, the rack can be moved back, to either side, and forward of the spot as a last resort.

Moving the rack back just far enough to get a tight rack won't change the dynamics of the break much. Neither will moving the rack just far enough to either side. However, the further you move the rack forward the greater your chances of making a ball on the break. This is really a very small advantage unless the rack is moved much further than it needs to be, but, any advantage will be exploited if someone thinks they can get away with it. As such, it was my understanding that first you move the rack back, then to either side, then forward only if absolutely necessary.

 

[hang-the-9]

I think its a reflection on the idea of micro-measurement in a game.

The general rules of billiards are such that micro-measurement is not necessary since it can not be easily achieved at any given moment. For example, on some shots in a game of 8-ball you may be able to clearly see if your last object ball falls before the 8-ball if they are pocketed on the same shot. That would fulfill the rule requirements of pocketing all the balls of your numerical group before pocketing the 8-ball. However, on some shots they may fall so closely together that without a laser measuring device it would be impossible to tell which actually fell first. To avoid the entire argument the rule was made that the 8-ball can not be pocketed on the same shot as a ball from your numerical group. Rather than figure out a way to be accurate enough the rule made the shot illegal - problem solved.

As far as racks are concerned, I don't know of a specific rule that states where the rack must be placed or how close it needs to be to the intersection of the foot string and the long axis of the table. I do know that whenever possible the rack should be on the spot. If the spot is damaged and making a tight rack is not possible, the rack can be moved back, to either side, and forward of the spot as a last resort.

Moving the rack back just far enough to get a tight rack won't change the dynamics of the break much. Neither will moving the rack just far enough to either side. However, the further you move the rack forward the greater your chances of making a ball on the break. This is really a very small advantage unless the rack is moved much further than it needs to be, but, any advantage will be exploited if someone thinks they can get away with it. As such, it was my understanding that first you move the rack back, then to either side, then forward only if absolutely necessary.

-- edited, read the sentence wrong ---

All the rules state were the rack is placed, on the foot spot. That is a single point intersecting at the second diamond on the long rail and the middle diamond on the short rail. Moving the rack even a 1/8 of an in inch can make a huge difference if the balls go in and which ones. Usually in 9 ball the corner balls go up high over the corner pockets, moving the rack back a small amount can make them go in easier, the same thing for 1 in the side. Moving the rack a little to get a tight rack is an acceptable compromise but needs to be agreed on by the players and the TD or ref. Some players don't mind gaps in the rack and would rather it be placed in the right position on the table. I played Mike Dechaine a bunch of times, who knows a lot about the rack and the break, and he would accept me racking the balls if they were a bit loose in a spot or two as good and still made balls off that break.

WPA 9 ball rule
The object balls are racked as tightly as possible in a diamond shape, with the one ball at the
apex of the diamond and on the foot spot and the nine ball in the middle of the diamond. The
other balls will be placed in the diamond without purposeful or intentional pattern.
Nine Ball Rack

UPA 10 ball rules
2.1 How to Rack
The balls are racked in a triangle with the 1-ball on the foot spot at the top of the triangle, the 10-ball in the center of the triangle, with the 2-ball & 3-ball placed randomly at the bottom corners, and the rest of the balls randomly dispersed throughout the rack.

 

[David in FL]

Don't think you understood the rules of 8 ball properly there, you can't make the 8 on the same stroke as any other ball, that is a loss. The shot does not officially end till all the balls stop moving, that is why it is a foul to grab a moving ball or the cueball at the end of a game, the game does not end till the balls stop. So if you pocket your last solid and make the 8 at the same time, it's still on the same shot. The order of how the balls fall does not matter.

That’s actually what he said.

He was simply providing an explanation of why that’s the case…

 

[hang-the-9]

That’s actually what he said.

He was simply providing an explanation of why that’s the case…

You are right, did not read the sentence after that correctly.

 

[tatcat2000]

The OP situation is addressed in CSI/BCAPL/USAPL rules under Applied Ruling 1-14, Racking Procedures:

To ensure play is not delayed, an undue amount of time shall not be spent attempting to put out a perfect rack if the apex ball will not stay exactly on the foot spot. If the apex ball consistently shifts slightly when attempting to rack, it is permissible to adjust the position of the remaining balls to match the position of the settled apex ball.