Run this rack? How? #3

[bruin70]

Your right. My opponent did try that kick with this result:

START(
%Ah1D6%Bl3Z6%Co9I5%EX4Y9%FT3W9%GK4N7%HL2O8%IN9N3%JM5Z1%KL1Q3
%MZ6W3%OE6I4%PD5H7%T_7_1%Wi9I6%Xs4R0%Yf7Z7%ZH2C6%[G6D1%\D9H1
%]r5R7%^g6[4
)END

He lined it up right I believe, he just hit it hard compressing the rubber and shortening the angle. It paid off with ball in hand but it could have been me kicking back at the 15 ball instead.

Sure I know what everyones thinking: This isn't as difficult a rack to run out as some others. Should have tried to run out from the get go.

But you know sometimes a shot presents itself and you just know you can do it. You see it so easy, weather it's a carom bank or a simple shot to freeze the cue up. OK I'm done defending my actions, but as I look back on it now I should have just ran out.

Oh yeah, here's what I did with the ball in hand:

START(
%Ah1D6%Bl3Z6%Co9I5%EX4Y9%FT3W9%GK4N7%HL2O8%IN9N3%JM5Z1%KL1Q3
%MZ6W3%OE6I4%PG3S2%T_7_1%WE7S9%XK1Q6%Yq7D4%ZL8Q0%[J6Q9%\H1R8
)END

well......now he knows he didn't have to kick hard

 

[renard]

well......now he knows he didn't have to kick hard

Yeah but it was close to the rail also.

I was glad it happened to this guy. You know the type A) He knows everything and gives his advise freely and often. B) Struts and beats his chest announces to the world, "I won another or I was robbed!"

Also from your previous post I agree there was flexability in this rack. I think the biggest sticking point would be to most people is what ball do you use to breakout the 8 and possibly the 11.

 

[sixpack]

Thanks for posting another really interesting rack, renard. I don't know if you had this option since it's so close to call on the Wei diagram, but if it was a comfortable shot to follow the 9 and stop on the short side of the 15, parallel to the short rail, I like the way the rack goes down from there.

9)
START(
%Ah1D6%Bl3Z6%Co9I5%EX4Y9%FT3W9%GK4N7%HL2O8%IN9N3%JM5Z1%KL1Q3
%LD1H2%MZ6W3%NF9Z0%OE6I4%PT0S0%YC7D3%ZN3M6%eB1`1%_F8E9%`O3N7
%aS3R3
)END

Shoot the 15 in the lower left corner with natural shape on a soft one-rail breakout off the 12, where the target is the bottom side of the cluster so you can clear the 14 from the pocket next.

15)
START(
%Ah1D6%Bl3Z6%Co9I5%EX4Y9%FT3W9%GK4N7%HL2O8%IB7B6%JM5Z1%KL1Q3
%LD1H2%MZ6W3%NF9Z0%OE8I3%PF0E0%WF1G7%XE9E9%YC8Z7%ZE5I9%[F9L5
%\F0H8%eB5`9
)END


I like this breakout because you get a good spread regardless of where you hit the bottom of the cluster, and the 13 is there as an insurance ball even if you hit the top side. I think the ideal target is the bottom side of the 7-ball, moving the 11 over in a controlled way toward the 10 to help get position on that ball.

12)
START(
%Ah1D6%Bl3Z6%Co9I5%EX4Y9%FT3W9%GK4N7%HL2O8%IB7B6%JM5Z1%KL1Q3
%LD1H2%MZ6W3%NF9Z0%OB7\1%PF9M8%WJ0N2%XC4I0%YD6J2%ZF3M0%[C6C8
%\D0G3%]J9U7%^J6O0%eA6a9
)END

Here's a possible layout after the break that I would like a lot.:

After the breakout)
START(
%Ah1D6%Bl3Z6%Co9I5%EX4Y9%FT3W9%GN0K8%HN6O6%IB7B6%JM5Z1%KM0T5
%LB8B6%MZ6W3%NF9Z0%OB7\1%PJ8W5%eB3a1
)END


An easy run from there with very little cue ball movement would be 14 in the corner, 11 in the upper side, 10 in the corner,13 in the side, 8 in the upper left corner.

Walt,

You posted the out I was thinking, EXCEPT that I would prefer to try and get the first shot (follow the 9) to a place where I can bump into the 7 off the 15. This gives you two safety valves. (12 & 14) If you get on the funny side of the 7 you have the 13. In the breakout off the 12, if you get funny and are forced to shoot the 13, you have 3 balls (10, 14, 11) in the cluster on the bottom left and you have to get shape on one of them off the 13.

Cheers,
RC

 

[Cornerman]

In this game I broke and made nothing. My opponent made the 4 and drew the ball back and froze on the 2. He had to jack up and throw the 2 ball missing at the bottom right corner.

Apparently, I don't agree with many people on this. I think this is the easiest of the 3 racks you've show to runout.

If the 11-ball doesn't go, then I think your first shot is to get the cueball on the "B" side of the line, preferably right at point B. From there, you bump the 11-ball and the rack becomes easy (relatively speaking for someone who has some skills)


START(
%Ah1D6%Bl3Z6%Co9I5%EX4Y9%FT3W9%GK4N7%HL2O8%IN9N3%JM5Z1%KL1Q3
%LD1H2%MZ6W3%NF9Z0%OE6I4%PT0S0%RW6O4%XC3D6
)END

I would hit the 13-ball first to get the cueball in that vicinity.

START(
%Ah1D6%Bl3Z6%Co9I5%EX4Y9%FT3W9%GK4N7%HL2O8%IN9N3%JM5Z1%KL1Q3
%LD1H2%MZ6W3%NF9Z0%OE6I4%PT0S0%RW6O4%UZ0V0%VT6S1%XC3D6%[q9T9
%\Z9V1%]\0R9%^r6T3%eB3a6
)END

IMO, the 13-ball absolutely cannot be the last ball. It is the most dangerous ball in the runout.

Fred

 

[Cornerman]

START(
%Ah1D6%Bl3Z6%Co9I5%EX4Y9%FT3W9%GK4N7%HL2O8%IN9N3%JM5Z1%KL1Q3
%MZ6W3%OE6I4%PD4H8
)END

It was screaming for it. I figured if my opponent makes a good hit the 13 ball was good insurance. Ball in hand = easier runout.

You have violated 2 or 3 of "Fred's Idiot Guide for 8-ball."

I have them written down somewhere, but may have to republish.

Of course these are all general and of course, in my not-so-humble-opinion but,

1. If you're going to be an 8-ball player, you must think "runout first."

There are at least 3 ways to run this rack. All of which center around clearing the 11-ball early, which doesn't need much clearing. Thinking "safety first" will, IMO, leave you unsatisfied in improvement.

2. In planning your runout, the two toughest balls that aren't tied up will be the hanging balls, and the balls near the center of the table. Get them off early. The hanging balls are toughest to play position with. The balls in the center are the toughest to use when they're the only ones of your suit on the table.

3. If you must play a safety, leave the table stronger than when you left it. This would include stronger safeties that break out your cluster problems and/or safeties that leave you in a good "up and down" situation. That is, don't lay a safety that automatically hurts you if they make a good hit.

These are three of about 10 "rules" that will win more games for every intermediate player. Pro players don't need rules. They just make everything.

Fred

 

[renard]

You have violated 2 or 3 of "Fred's Idiot Guide for 8-ball."

I have them written down somewhere, but may have to republish.

Of course these are all general and of course, in my not-so-humble-opinion but,

1. If you're going to be an 8-ball player, you must think "runout first."

There are at least 3 ways to run this rack. All of which center around clearing the 11-ball early, which doesn't need much clearing. Thinking "safety first" will, IMO, leave you unsatisfied in improvement.

2. In planning your runout, the two toughest balls that aren't tied up will be the hanging balls, and the balls near the center of the table. Get them off early. The hanging balls are toughest to play position with. The balls in the center are the toughest to use when they're the only ones of your suit on the table.

3. If you must play a safety, leave the table stronger than when you left it. This would include stronger safeties that break out your cluster problems and/or safeties that leave you in a good "up and down" situation. That is, don't lay a safety that automatically hurts you if they make a good hit.

These are three of about 10 "rules" that will win more games for every intermediate player. Pro players don't need rules. They just make everything.

Fred

I appreciate the slap on the wrist Fred. As I have stated before, looking back on what I did was the wrong plan for this rack. Did I get lucky? Yes. Against a better player I might have been beaten. I know you are supposed to breakout your problem balls early. But I also know that break outs in the direction of your already freed balls could create other problem clusters. Clearing the 14, 12, and 15 balls before breaking out the 8-11 would be the first thing I would do. Then I would get rid of those center table balls you described.

Anyway this is what I did next:
START(
%Ah1D6%Bl3Z6%Co9I5%EX4Y9%FT3W9%GK4N7%HL2O8%IN9N3%JM5Z1%MZ6W3
%OE6I4%PD2T4%T_7_1%WE8K6%XD5S5%YK0D4%ZF0J6%[C6D4%\E1H2%]Z6P0
%^K8C5
)END

START(
%Ah1D6%Bl3Z6%Co9I5%EX4Y9%FT3W9%GK4N7%HL2O8%IN9N3%JM5Z1%MZ6W3
%P\0Q2%T_7_1%W[0U4%X[8R0%YX3X4%ZZ5V2%[[3[1%\Z3X0%]S5Z7%^W1Y1
)END

START(
%Ah1D6%Bl3Z6%Co9I5%EX4Y9%FT3W9%GK4N7%HL2O8%IN9N3%JM5Z1%PR0Z9
%T_7_1%YU7S7%ZN2Y9%[C8[4%\L4Z0%]O4Z3%^Q1Z4
)END

START(
%Ah1D6%Bl3Z6%Co9I5%EX4Y9%FT3W9%GK4N7%HL2O8%IN9N3%PW0R6%T_7_1
%UF3H4%VJ9N0%WD4S8%XK3P1%YG0V7%ZC4T5%[D5D6%\N2M7%]P4O5%^V2R4
%_L3Q8%`L9O5%aO3O0
)END

START(
%Ah1D6%Bl3Z6%Co9I5%EX4Y9%FT3W9%GE2F9%HH5W7%PK7S6%T_7_1

)END

Well I have to go play some more pool and come up with another layout. That last one was lame and I have been admonished for my playing to a safe. I learn and hopefully we all learn with these layouts!

Take care Fred!

 

[bruin70]

the thing is fred, is a scenario that occured with renard. if you got into the three ball cluster, the 7 would go towards to 12/15, and the 11 might kick out and block your next ball, which i'm assuming would've been the 14. START(
%Ah1D6%Bl3Z6%Co9I5%EX4Y9%FT3W9%GE7E1%HF1R1%JM5Z1%KK8W0%LD1H2
%MZ6W3%NF9Z0%OE6I4%PN0Q4
)END

let's say you had a way to lightly bump the cluster, so that the three balls don't move much......then you could end up with the 11 moving only to be blocked by the 14, or an impossible angle on the 11. START(
%Ah1D6%Bl3Z6%Co9I5%EX4Y9%FT3W9%GJ2M1%HK8P0%JM5Z1%KL8S1%LD1H2
%MZ6W3%NF9Z0%OE6I4%PN0Q4
)END

the only possibility i can see is to bump only the 11 START(
%Ah1D6%Bl3Z6%Co9I5%EX4Y9%FT3W9%GK4N7%HL2O8%JM5Z1%KH7Q6%LD1H2
%NF9Z0%OE6I4%PM3T7
)END so i'm guessing 14-12-15-11-10. 8 looks like it goes to the bottom left even though it kisses the 7. i think position has to be "too right" on the 9,15, and 10. and as you said,,,the pros make everything , so this being not for pros, the best solutions are the ones with room for error. to shoot the 13, go down rail and back , and position for a finesse shot on the 9-11 bump is tough, imo

and as renard shows, the 15 is a good ball for the 10

 

[Cornerman]

the thing is fred, is a scenario that occured with renard. if you got into the three ball cluster, the 7 would go towards to 12/15, and the 11 might kick out and block your next ball, which i'm assuming would've been the 14. START(
%Ah1D6%Bl3Z6%Co9I5%EX4Y9%FT3W9%GE7E1%HF1R1%JM5Z1%KK8W0%LD1H2
%MZ6W3%NF9Z0%OE6I4%PN0Q4
)END

LOL!!! This is the funny thing about the Wei table. People will put up some runouts that would need a minor miracle, like the last one whoever did the stop shot on the 13-ball, then spin-banked the trouble stripe that was frozen to the 8-ball. LOL!!!! Good fantasy.

But, now this relatively easy runout, and you're putting up a result that I see could never happen. I don't see the 7-ball moving, and I see a very predictable kiss out on the 11-ball. The 9-ball is in a very beautiful spot to go aggressive on the runout. The 7-ball and the 8-ball do not need clearing, so those shouldn't be touched. The 11-ball doesn't need much of anything to get it clear (if it needs to be cleared at all). Maybe I find this 9-ball to 11-ball carom a "14.1 thing."

But, that's we post our opionons. I've always said that the bad thing about the Wei table is that viewing it from a 2D view above misleads people. IMO, this one is almost a simpleton runout.

Fred <~~~ simpleton

 

[Jaden]

I see code

Everyones feedback has been great so far. I'm learning to look at situations with more options in my head than before. I have never been the type who gets paralysis by analysis. I simply go thru my options and go with what I believe is the right choice at the given time.

In this game I broke and made nothing. My opponent made the 4 and drew the ball back and froze on the 2. He had to jack up and throw the 2 ball missing at the bottom right corner.

START(
%Ah1D6%Bl3Z6%Co9I5%EX4Y9%FT3W9%GK4N7%HL2O8%IN9N3%JM5Z1%KL1Q3
%LD1H2%MZ6W3%NF9Z0%OE6I4%PT0S0
)END

I don't see anything but start end and a bunch of crap in the middle? can someone post a pic of this setup?