Running a Tournament

[iacas]

I'm looking to run a pool tournament. I have access to a pool hall (though it might cost $1000 to rent it out for two days, or it may be free). Anyway, I figure it might not be too bad...

1) $250 * 32 players is $8k.
2) Eliminate half the field on day one. The remaining 16 get seeded and play off to the final four.
3) The final two play for first and second. The losers play for third and fourth. Payouts are $5k, $2.5k, $1.5k, and $1k for a total of $10k.

That means $2k comes from somewhere - advertising. Any additional revenue is profit for the tournament organizer - or can be kicked back into special prizes or something.

I think that if a local radio station gets involved (they can "report live from the [name to be determined] Tournament), that could make it quite a hit.

I imagine an unhandicapped 9-ball (or maybe even 8-ball) race to nine might be a nice way to go. Single set, no handicaps, race to 9. Perhaps 7 in some of the earlier rounds...

Do you think it's possible? What are the caveats? What should I watch for? Can I pretty easily find 32 players? If I could find 64 at $150/head that's almost the whole purse right there...

What do you think? If it's announced two months ahead of time, people would sign up and practice... perhaps have it late March, 2006?

It may be a massive undertaking for which I'm not prepared, but right now it seems pretty possible... I realize $5k isn't a huge payout in the least, but for a few local players I think it'd be pretty tempting. $250 isn't a ton, either, and it may be possible the pool hall would kick in some sort of discounted playing rates for any contestantts, too, as they'd be getting some good advertising and publicity too.

 

[Eydie Romano]

I think late March is VF and you would loose a lot of players.

I run a lot of big events, if you have any questions you can either call me at 630-244-2900 or email me at windycityopen@aol.com check out our web site at www.windycityopen.net

 

[iacas]

I think late March is VF and you would loose a lot of players.

Okay, so early April then, or even mid April. I don't expect such a small tournament to draw from too far away - the Erie area, mostly. Should I expect differently?

I'm not expecting a ton of pros - or even necessarily any pros. Just some decent competitive pool.

P.S. I would create a website for the event. Not that that matters, but, it's a small detail I forgot to mention before.

 

[randyg]

Single or double elim?
What rules?
How many tables?

 

[Snapshot9]

Thoughts

Sounds okay, but I think some players will balk at the $250 entry
with you only paying 1/8th of the field. What happens is you don't
fill it, and have to reduce the payback anyway. I would reduce
the top 4 some, fill in 5-8th payback (to at least get entry back
for 6th place), not pay out more than you can guarantee going in,
and hold a calcutta to boost the pot back up. That way the players
are considering the qdded calcutta money when having to put
the $250 up. What about green fees? The Pool room could make
money of green fees, food, and drinks.

 

[iacas]

Single or double elim?
What rules?
How many tables?

I don't know yet. But probably:
1) no elimination first day - just top 16 points getters, single the second day
2) standard BCA 9-ball or 8-ball rules
3) at least eight tables

Sounds okay, but I think some players will balk at the $250 entry with you only paying 1/8th of the field. What happens is you don't fill it, and have to reduce the payback anyway. I would reduce the top 4 some, fill in 5-8th payback (to at least get entry back for 6th place), not pay out more than you can guarantee going in, and hold a calcutta to boost the pot back up. That way the players are considering the qdded calcutta money when having to put the $250 up. What about green fees? The Pool room could make money of green fees, food, and drinks.

I dunno, paying $250 for a one-in-32 chance of earning $5k doesn't seem too bad. Paying $250 for a 1-in-8 chance of winning at least $1k doesn't seem bad either. I could stretch it out to eight places but then the top winner only pockets $2500 or something... (this is just under $10k): 1) 2500, 2) 2000, 3) 1500, 4) 1250, 5) 1000, 6) 750, 7) 500, 8) 250

I don't think it would be necessary to raise the money from the players. I think that $10k should not be that hard to dig up - 10 businesses contributing $1k in advertising each would do it.

And I'm not (at this point) worried about the table fees for the pool hall - they'd probably give the two days for the promotion of the pool hall. It's new, and this would be a great way to introduce it. But yes, they can make money with food and drink sales.

My idea - and I could be wrong here - is that a slightly higher ($250) entry fee but a relatively decent payout will restrict the entries to the better players from the Erie area and perhaps as far out as Pittsburgh, Cleveland, and Buffalo (I bought my table from a dealer in Pittsburgh, for example, who may be willing to both advertise and perhaps inform their better customers of the tournament).

So, I hope I've answered more questions. I'm new to this, and believe me when I say that I don't believe any of the answers I'm giving are the best ones. They're just what I think might work... I appreciate those who have stepped out so far to say "that'd work" or "that won't work" or "you need to consider this too." Please, keep 'em coming.

 

[Vahe]

Payouts

5th place and 6th place usually get the same.
7th place and 8th place usually get the same as well.

Keep this in mind when calculating the payouts.

If you'd like 7/8 to get their entry back that's $250 each, or $500 total.
Let's say 5/6 get $500 each, or $1000 total.

You now have $8500 to spread out between 1st and 4th.

Just a thought.

Also keep in mind that most people look for a payout to 25% of the field and that goes by total brackets.

If you have 13 players, you should pay the top 4 (calculating a complete 13-16 bracket).

You are thinking of using a point system to move into the second day which makes it tough.

You might want to consider throwing back $50 to the players that didn't make it to day 2. This way they didn't lose the entire $250.

It will only cost you $800 if you have 32 as you expect. Now you can reward those who did.

 

[iacas]

5th place and 6th place usually get the same.
7th place and 8th place usually get the same as well.

Those are good thoughts that would eliminate the need to play off for positions out of the top four.

Also keep in mind that most people look for a payout to 25% of the field and that goes by total brackets.

OK. I may still go with the larger, smaller number of payouts, but I'm leaning the other way now since every reply so far has pointed me in that direction.

You are thinking of using a point system to move into the second day which makes it tough.

How so?

You might want to consider throwing back $50 to the players that didn't make it to day 2. This way they didn't lose the entire $250.

Why wouldn't I just make the entry fee $200 instead? Because even those who make it to day two aren't guaranteed a payout. Perhaps I can give them $100, then, if they finish "out of the money"?

So:
32-17: $50 = $800
16-9: $100 = $800
8: 250
7: 250
6: 500
5: 500
4: 750
3: 1000
2: 1500
1: 2500

That's only $8,850, so that might just work. Heck, that still leaves $1k (rounded) to add on, and possibly more if some people advertise. Do you think that kind of structure would be good?

 

[Snapshot9]

Those are good thoughts that would eliminate the need to play off for positions out of the top four.


OK. I may still go with the larger, smaller number of payouts, but I'm leaning the other way now since every reply so far has pointed me in that direction.


How so?


Why wouldn't I just make the entry fee $200 instead? Because even those who make it to day two aren't guaranteed a payout. Perhaps I can give them $100, then, if they finish "out of the money"?

So:
32-17: $50 = $800
16-9: $100 = $800
8: 250
7: 250
6: 500
5: 500
4: 750
3: 1000
2: 1500
1: 2500

That's only $8,850, so that might just work. Heck, that still leaves $1k (rounded) to add on, and possibly more if some people advertise. Do you think that kind of structure would be good?

I wouldn't pay the entire field. Why should someone get something
back for going 2 and out, like most in the 17th-32nd posiiton would do?
I don't know but my way of thinking is if you don't win 2/3's of your
matches, then you shouldn't expect to get anything back (in reference
to the first day's play). I would take the $800 from 17th-32nd, and
make 1st $3,000 and 2nd $1,800. I also would make 9-12th $125, and
13-16th $75. And I would still hold a calcutta, that way, and pay top
4 spots in the calcutta. I think you are being optimistic about companies
paying a $1,000 for advertising, especially small companies as they usually
can not afford that, maybe $260 or $500, but it will not be as easy as
you think it will, and most companies will only do it if there is a pool
player in a significant position within the company. Your sales pitch for
advertising would be hurt some with only 32 players in the tournament in lieu of 64. Try to have 1 cuemaker there if possible to display his wares.
Have reliable and knowledgeable assistants. Do the draw and the posting
of the brackets yourself. Sell tickets for a draw of some kind for something
the players would like, like a cue from the cuemaker there or a TV or DVD
player or IPod.

Race to 9 9 ball is good, 7 on loser's side. I do not like 1 set finals, I
think it is unfair to the hot seat holder, I would make it a true double
elimination. I would think about a cash reward for most consecutive
racks run if winner breaks verified by both players that played the match.

If you go 8 ball, make it 7 on winner's side, 5 on loser's sidem maybe
even 6 and 4 as 8 ball tournaments tend to get slow sometimes.

 

[ironman]

I don't know yet. But probably:
1) no elimination first day - just top 16 points getters, single the second day
2) standard BCA 9-ball or 8-ball rules
3) at least eight tables



I dunno, paying $250 for a one-in-32 chance of earning $5k doesn't seem too bad. Paying $250 for a 1-in-8 chance of winning at least $1k doesn't seem bad either. I could stretch it out to eight places but then the top winner only pockets $2500 or something... (this is just under $10k): 1) 2500, 2) 2000, 3) 1500, 4) 1250, 5) 1000, 6) 750, 7) 500, 8) 250

I don't think it would be necessary to raise the money from the players. I think that $10k should not be that hard to dig up - 10 businesses contributing $1k in advertising each would do it.

And I'm not (at this point) worried about the table fees for the pool hall - they'd probably give the two days for the promotion of the pool hall. It's new, and this would be a great way to introduce it. But yes, they can make money with food and drink sales.

My idea - and I could be wrong here - is that a slightly higher ($250) entry fee but a relatively decent payout will restrict the entries to the better players from the Erie area and perhaps as far out as Pittsburgh, Cleveland, and Buffalo (I bought my table from a dealer in Pittsburgh, for example, who may be willing to both advertise and perhaps inform their better customers of the tournament).

So, I hope I've answered more questions. I'm new to this, and believe me when I say that I don't believe any of the answers I'm giving are the best ones. They're just what I think might work... I appreciate those who have stepped out so far to say "that'd work" or "that won't work" or "you need to consider this too." Please, keep 'em coming.

I would walk on my lips rather than sound like a "wise guy" but if you run a single elimination the first, and then a single elimination the 2nd day, I think that would be calle a single elimination tournament.

 

[iacas]

I would walk on my lips rather than sound like a "wise guy" but if you run a single elimination the first, and then a single elimination the 2nd day, I think that would be calle a single elimination tournament.

The first day I imagine(d) as being actually a round-robin tournament whereby players accumulate points (i.e. 7 in a race to 7), and the top 16 point-getters move on to day two. So it's only single elimination on the final day with longer races (perhaps two sets to five, or one set to nine).

I may drop the entry fee to $125 and make the field 64/32/16 - a three-day tournament. I didn't think it would be possible to get 64 players, but for half the entry fee, perhaps I could.

I've seen calcuttas used in golf tournaments. I didn't know it was common to do this in single-player games, but it's possible I may add that in. The idea of doing a drawing is a good one. We could auction off a pair of Sneaky Petes from a local custom cue-maker or something. That'd be ~$500 or so we'd need to raise in ticket sales.

 

[poolboy17]

I think that if a local radio station gets involved (they can "report live from the [name to be determined] Tournament), that could make it quite a hit.

While I would defer to others who have more experience running tournaments, I can help you on the radio. I've worked in radio for over 30 years. I would bet that almost any radio station you would be interested in...would want money to do the kind of reports you're talking about. They would at least want the cost of the broadcast lines installed - about $1000.

Sorry, that's probably not what you wanted to hear. Good Luck.

 

[iacas]

While I would defer to others who have more experience running tournaments, I can help you on the radio. I've worked in radio for over 30 years. I would bet that almost any radio station you would be interested in...would want money to do the kind of reports you're talking about. They would at least want the cost of the broadcast lines installed - about $1000.

Sorry, that's probably not what you wanted to hear. Good Luck.

Nah, that's about what I figured.

 

[lamar25]

Those are good thoughts that would eliminate the need to play off for positions out of the top four.


OK. I may still go with the larger, smaller number of payouts, but I'm leaning the other way now since every reply so far has pointed me in that direction.


How so?


Why wouldn't I just make the entry fee $200 instead? Because even those who make it to day two aren't guaranteed a payout. Perhaps I can give them $100, then, if they finish "out of the money"?

So:
32-17: $50 = $800
16-9: $100 = $800
8: 250
7: 250
6: 500
5: 500
4: 750
3: 1000
2: 1500
1: 2500

That's only $8,850, so that might just work. Heck, that still leaves $1k (rounded) to add on, and possibly more if some people advertise. Do you think that kind of structure would be good?

The orignal entry fee of $250, with 32 Players, would create $8,000 from entry fees.
The entry fees now appear to be $200 ($200 X 32 = $6,400). Revised payout of $8,850; would require added monies to be $2,450, as opposed to the $1k (rounded).
Will you be accepting pre-pay entries?

Lamar

 

[iacas]

The orignal entry fee of $250, with 32 Players, would create $8,000 from entry fees.
The entry fees now appear to be $200 ($200 X 32 = $6,400). Revised payout of $8,850; would require added monies to be $2,450, as opposed to the $1k (rounded).
Will you be accepting pre-pay entries?

Lamar

Actually, at this point, I don't think I'll do it this year. Too many tournaments to squeeze it between in the March/April timeframe. And then it's golf season, and I won't be planning much except my next round of golf. Next winter I'll pick up where I left off, I think.

 

[lamar25]

Actually, at this point, I don't think I'll do it this year. Too many tournaments to squeeze it between in the March/April timeframe. And then it's golf season, and I won't be planning much except my next round of golf. Next winter I'll pick up where I left off, I think.

Thanks for the update! Good Luck during the golf season.

"Happy new year",
Lamar