Safety with 15 balls in rack come back

[Jude Rosenstock]

This raises a question for me--as I'm just re-entering the 14.1 world, I'm realizing there's a number of situations where I'm tempted to just take an intentional foul, because playing a safety seems to me to be a lower percentage attempt (because of the high likelihood that I'll leave my opponent with a great opportunity). I'd rather take the -1 in those situations and leave my opponent with the same tough play, and maybe with any luck he'll screw up his safety attempt and let me go on a good run.

How prevalent are intentional fouls of this nature in 14.1?

The underlying problem with intentionally fouling in 14.1 is the "three foul rule". As I'm sure you're aware, after three consecutive fouls, you deduct 15 points. So, if you foul first, your opponent also has the option of intentionally fouling to eventually force you to take a legal shot. That said, it's VERY popular especially when both players are capable of running a lot of balls and especially in end-game strategy.

If there's one piece of advice I can give you about this strategy, always be mindful of who committed the first foul. Sometimes, you'll get to the table after your opponent fouled, run a bunch of balls and find yourself in a situation like you describe. You can intentionally foul and your opponent might unknowingly put themselves on 2-fouls, not remembering they actually committed the first foul. Then, you'll foul again and say, "You're on two."

EDIT: I want to also add, in end-game strategy, intentionally fouling can be very useful just for forcing the game into another rack. Like, say your opponent needs 9 points and there are 10 balls on the table. A sequence of intentional fouls will force the game into another rack, possibly another safety exchange and perhaps, not guarantee another turn at the table but at least a strong possibility of it.

Also, in the example I mentioned before, there are some intentional fouls that are deliberately meant to create routine safety situations. I often do this when, as the OP described, my opponent has left me with a 15 ball undisturbed rack at the other end of the table and I don't like the kick-safe option.

 

[michael4]

I disagree with your strategy completely.

I see value in both approaches, I guess it depends most on who you're playing and what they are likely to do...


good discussion

 

[Bob Jewett]

If I have no way of playing a safe from the original (no fouls on anyone) position, I'm going to try to nudge to a position where I have a tough safe I think I can play. I play much better half-masse safes than most people in league, so I might nudge to one of those. I don't want to leave an easy safe on that first nudge, but I want to leave some safe.

 

[brooklynplayer]

Thanks for all of the input on this - as a complete newbie to the game, its really hard to find info and discussions on this aspect of the game

I have a couple of books on order (play your best straight pool etc etc) but this info is very helpful

Cheers!
James

PS - thanks again for the tips Jude too

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Thanks for all of the input on this - as a complete newbie to the game, its really hard to find info and discussions on this aspect of the game

I have a couple of books on order (play your best straight pool etc etc) but this info is very helpful

Cheers!
James

PS - thanks again for the tips Jude too

When I first started playing seriously, the game of choice at Amsterdam was straight pool. Seriously, very few people played anything else when I first walked up the stairs at their Amsterdam Avenue location. Many of the older players (sadly, most are no longer with us) all had big high runs in their day and would often have arguments on how best to approach situations. What's more, we had a 19-year-old Jeanette Lee who was a breath of fresh air for pool, especially straight pool. She routinely ran 50s to the point where safety-play was a necessity, an act of desperation and you scrutinized every decision before you relinquished the table to her. Playing her was always a lesson but she also was quick to offer advice, "That's a sell-out. You should have done THIS!" was her most used quip. The entire time was a rail of players with hundreds of years of experience running hundreds of balls at a time. Let's just say, when I got it wrong (which was often) I knew. Miss those days.

 

[brooklynplayer]

As you so deftly offered me last night ha!

Instead of playing a safe (like you suggested after) i played a shot, turned over the table to you as a result of missing and you ran 3 racks on me if memory serves ha

Cheers! (its James btw)

 

[Seth C.]

Or thinks he can get you in worse position, or thinks he sees a dead ball, or thinks you think he is going to tap the CB so he wants to beat you to a move that doesn't exist, or plenty of other things that may be going through his mind.

It really doesn't matter to me, I'd rather find out, and see if a long shot mistake is made while I still have a second foul I could take. No biggie, I guess we just play differently.

I agree with 3andStop, at least when playing other than superior players. I say this because ugly plays are routinely made by less than superior players, so give them a chance to make mistakes. Case in point - myself. I recently lost a 14.1 match in part because when trying to just touch, and not move, the cue ball after my opponent had taken the first foul, I unintentionally (out of nervousness) slightly moved the cue ball and left my opponent with a makeable shot. Off and running he went ...