His definition of run out percentage is a bit different than ours fellas. When I'm down to my last few balls AND feel like I should get out, I usually do too.
Same Shot Different Side Problem
- Thread starter DrCue'sProtege
- Start date
His definition of run out percentage is a bit different than ours fellas. When I'm down to my last few balls AND feel like I should get out, I usually do too.
No, no, you folks have mis-read or misunderstood.
When i say i am at 58% i mean when i have gotten through a rack, to the final few balls, and at that point i feel like i ABSOLUTELY should get out. I am talking with about 4 balls left on the table.
So, as an example, i break and make one ball, and then get down to just 4 balls left and they are fairly open, no major problems. If i screw that up thats what i am talking about. Of these type situations i am only getting out about 58% of the time and i'd like to get that up to about 75%.
You surely arent serious? You didnt really think i meant i break and run out 58% of my breaks, did you? Heck, i can break 100 times and with my horrible luck i might only have 2-3 chances to run out.
Mike
Mike...What we are all trying to tell you, is that it isn't your "bad luck"...it is your inconsistent set up and delivery process. If you really followed the process I taught you (instead of second-guessing it), you would develop a real "trust" in your ability to accurately strike the CB, using just the weight of the the cuestick and timing. For whatever reason you are unable to do that, and I really cannot tell you why, except that you likely have negative thoughts that are a constant in your mind. That, by itself, could result in inconsistent results on the table...that, or you're secretly a pathological perfectionist, in which case nothing will help you.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Can we get a big "A-men" from the congregation?
Judging from some of Mike's questions here, there is one other possible issue....over analysis. Thinking a little bit too much.
Cover your A.S.S. and then shoot the shot!
Steve
It seems to me that most instructors on here feel like that if you have a good setup, deliver, mechanics, etc, THAT YOU SHOULD BE THE GREATEST PLAYER TO EVER PLAY THIS GAME, NO DOUBT ABOUT IT!!!
All of this is well and good - and necessary - but its like Williebetmore said once.....You have to be a ball pocketing machine to play at a top level. and just because somebody has good mechanics in no way, shape, or form does it mean they are going to be a top level player.
When i miss a shot or position and post about the shot/position, it seems like the instructors all on here always talk about setup, delivery, mechanics, etc, as the reason i miss. Heck, if that was the case, Allison Fisher wouldnt miss a shot - EVER!!!
Sometimes you just muck up - i am trying to limit my muck up %. I talk to myself all the time when i practice and play racks about having good mechanics. Doesnt necessarily mean its going to turn me into a machine.
Mike
That's the problem. You talk to yourself about good mechanics...you think about good mechanics....but your practice seems to be more like playing to run racks.
Practice your mechanics the way Scott taught you. And no, that will not make you a pro player. But without them, you will never be a pro player.
You seem to think there is a magic bullet somewhere, and that just isn't the case. You start with a solid foundation, just as you do with anything. Then you continue to apply the things you know are correct. And you will GRADUALLY improve. It will not happen quickly, but it will happen. It takes work and patience....and I fear you may be a little bit lacking in one of those areas.
Here's another fact....you will probably never be as good as you want to be. Because no matter how good you actually are, you will always know you can get better.
I think you may have forgotten why we play this game. It's for the pleasure of the game. There is no end goal. It's all about the journey of continuous improvement.
Enjoy the journey. But quit looking for the finish line. There isn't one.
Steve
Practice your mechanics the way Scott taught you. And no, that will not make you a pro player. But without them, you will never be a pro player.
You seem to think there is a magic bullet somewhere, and that just isn't the case. You start with a solid foundation, just as you do with anything. Then you continue to apply the things you know are correct. And you will GRADUALLY improve. It will not happen quickly, but it will happen. It takes work and patience....and I fear you may be a little bit lacking in one of those areas.
Here's another fact....you will probably never be as good as you want to be. Because no matter how good you actually are, you will always know you can get better.
I think you may have forgotten why we play this game. It's for the pleasure of the game. There is no end goal. It's all about the journey of continuous improvement.
Enjoy the journey. But quit looking for the finish line. There isn't one.
Steve
Can I give you a newbies perspective here, from someone in your position, Mike. As opposed to coming from the instructors. Someone said it earlier in the thread, you're thinking too much!
I'm saying this because it happens to me, too. Once I recognized it, and corrected it, I began making more shots, more often. I have to guard against it still, but now that I recognize it, I can work with it.
You're likely gonna say "but how am I supposed to focus on the mechanical things that I need to make repeatable?" I know this because I said the same things to myself, as well. To me, a novice at all this, it means working out all those things BEFORE getting down to shoot. Once there, just shoot the damned thing, and don't think about it! If you're literally talking to yourself about stuff while shooting, you have to be focused in too many directions, and concious of things that you might not be otherwise. When I tell myself "don't grip too tight", what do you think I do? Squeeze too hard, and that doesn't help, right?
Mike, you put a lot of thought into this stuff. Don't fall into "paralysis by analysis", or overthinking it. I know I have done so, all in the pursuit of "getting better". Once I started letting go of the thought process the moment I got down at the table, I stopped having as many problems as I did previously. I still have a LONG way to go. But the process is easier now, and FAR more enjoyable.
Is it Randy G that says "don't shoot in the thinking position and don't think in the shooting position"? It is so very true. Even to a newbie like me. Perhaps especially to a newbie like me.
Try to have some fun, Mike. It's supposed to be fun.
Funny thing... I was shooting with some friends last night, watching my opponent shoot, and realized that I wasn't keeping my grip-arm in close enough to my body. I had let it drift too far outward...
So what do you think happened? I was thinking about it everytime I got down to shoot. Even after I had made my post easrlier in this thread. After a few shots, that realization sunk in, too...
Progress, but hard to come by at times!
The mental part of this game is by far the most difficult. I suppose that's what makes it so rewarding when it all comes together (for however long that lasts!).
So what do you think happened? I was thinking about it everytime I got down to shoot. Even after I had made my post easrlier in this thread. After a few shots, that realization sunk in, too...
Progress, but hard to come by at times!The mental part of this game is by far the most difficult. I suppose that's what makes it so rewarding when it all comes together (for however long that lasts!).
Funny thing... I was shooting with some friends last night, watching my opponent shoot, and realized that I wasn't keeping my grip-arm in close enough to my body. I had let it drift too far outward...
So what do you think happened? I was thinking about it everytime I got down to shoot. Even after I had made my post easrlier in this thread. After a few shots, that realization sunk in, too...
The mental part of this game is by far the most difficult. I suppose that's what makes it so rewarding when it all comes together (for however long that lasts!).
I had an instructor tell me that i needed to keep my grip-arm away from my body...
Mike
I had an instructor tell me that i needed to keep my grip-arm away from my body...
Mike
I never said I was right...
I think it works better for me. I've never had the professional instruction that you've been so fortunate to have access to. I'm quite probably all wet.
I just seem to have a better stroke when I keep my elbow "in" as opposed to away from my body. Less control "out there".
This is all well and good, but I've gone and hijacked your thread. Which I didn't mean to, and apologize for. I was just using that as an example of how we can get thinking too much at the time when we should be shooting. It really was funny, when I realized I had gone and done the one thing I was preaching about only hours earlier. Self discovery, perhaps?
Good luck, Mike. I hope you make some progress, and have some fun shooting.
I had an instructor tell me that i needed to keep my grip-arm away from my body...
Mike
Did the instructor tell you why?
Typically, this would be related to alignment, but could be a clearance issue. Everyone is built differently and positions themselves accordingly and their errors and corrections are specific to them. They may be similar types of errors, but different, and require different solutions.
An alignment issue for one student may be their arm too close, while another student's alignment issue is that their arm is out too far. The two students solutions seem to conflict, but are appropriate for each.
Instruction should be specific to the individual and should not be construed as a one size fits all solution. The instruction should include what the issue is and why the correction fixes the problem. The student should be able to immediately see the difference.
You nailed it, Mark. Suggestions for two different students might very well be quite different. I have had to work with students to move their cue closer to their hip, and I've had to work with students to move their cue away from their hip.
Mike....what an instructor told you to do is probably right for you. What they tell someone else to do is probably right for them. And the advice may very well not be the same for both of you.
Steve
Mike....what an instructor told you to do is probably right for you. What they tell someone else to do is probably right for them. And the advice may very well not be the same for both of you.
Steve
I'm not an instructor but I have noticed this problem not just for my self but even very good players. I agree that a straight in shot is just that straight in.The better the pre shot routine and fundamentals will definitely help with this issue.
But we are a product of our environment. The table, rails, lines on the cloth even aiming the ball to the back of the pocket instead on the center of the pocket opening which seems common. Any of these can cause us to want to line our bodies up slightly off from the shot. I have seen newbies to pros lineup off on straight in shots but the pros rarely miss them anyways.
Someone showed me this a long time ago that helps with this. Set a ob on the 3rd diamond along the long rail no more than a 1/4" off the rail. Now take another ball and set beside the first no more than 3/16 off the first. Now take the the cb ad place it 2 1/2 diamonds away ON THE RAIL.
Now shoot the ball closest to the rail into the corner pocket. You need replace the ob with the cb (not a stop shot) and not touch the other ball. If done perfectly you will pocket the ob and the cb will come to REST ON THE RAIL next to the other ball. This needs to be done going both ways with the rail next to the left arm and the right arm.
Use a stripe ball as a cb with the stripes being vertical, this will show you if you are using any side (english) by accident.
But we are a product of our environment. The table, rails, lines on the cloth even aiming the ball to the back of the pocket instead on the center of the pocket opening which seems common. Any of these can cause us to want to line our bodies up slightly off from the shot. I have seen newbies to pros lineup off on straight in shots but the pros rarely miss them anyways.
Someone showed me this a long time ago that helps with this. Set a ob on the 3rd diamond along the long rail no more than a 1/4" off the rail. Now take another ball and set beside the first no more than 3/16 off the first. Now take the the cb ad place it 2 1/2 diamonds away ON THE RAIL.
Now shoot the ball closest to the rail into the corner pocket. You need replace the ob with the cb (not a stop shot) and not touch the other ball. If done perfectly you will pocket the ob and the cb will come to REST ON THE RAIL next to the other ball. This needs to be done going both ways with the rail next to the left arm and the right arm.
Use a stripe ball as a cb with the stripes being vertical, this will show you if you are using any side (english) by accident.
I think what they are trying to get across when they say "good setup, delivery, mechanics" are essential to being great is more along the lines of: When you have an ACCURATE, CONSISTENT & REPEATABLE process, it SHOULD allow you to become the best player YOU can be...
Once you are making the same exact precise motion with excellent fundamentals on every single shot, the only thing stopping you is knowledge and experience. Both of those things can only improve with time and practice...
To relate this in mechanical terms, some of us got a V6, others got a V12, but they both work off of the same basic principles of exact timing, mechanical repeatability, accuracy and consistent execution. The only difference is the end production...
Only 1 in a 1,000,000 have the natural talent/knowledge to be a world class player, the rest of us can just be as good as we allow ourselves to be (within our own physical/mental limitations)
JMHO...
Joe...Tap, tap, tap! Eloquent and correct! I couldn't have said it better myself!
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Banks
Banned
*Disclaimer: The following is a mere opinion, supplied by a non-instructor that is not an A or above in ability.
My first question was how you were missing and if it was consistent.. it sounds like it was. Second, was wondering which handed you are.. I'm guessing righty - which leads into a stroke error related to your miss. If you are comfortable with your stroking, perhaps it is how you are going about your draw. I find that I can draw pretty well by putting just a hair of side english on the shot(probably just correcting my own error).. so I was wondering, perhaps you should evaluate how you are trying your draw. The next time you try this, incorporate what I call a mental fix.. that is, don't necessarily apply a hair of right into your draw, but merely think about it as you line up and shoot the shot. A lot of times I find that actually putting on the extra will be too much, but just thinking about it gives it just the edge I need.
I've learned primarily through trial and error and I find this is one good way of realigning my shots. I think somebody on AZB had mentioned doing this before and I found that it worked pretty well in cases where you don't need much at all..
My first question was how you were missing and if it was consistent.. it sounds like it was. Second, was wondering which handed you are.. I'm guessing righty - which leads into a stroke error related to your miss. If you are comfortable with your stroking, perhaps it is how you are going about your draw. I find that I can draw pretty well by putting just a hair of side english on the shot(probably just correcting my own error).. so I was wondering, perhaps you should evaluate how you are trying your draw. The next time you try this, incorporate what I call a mental fix.. that is, don't necessarily apply a hair of right into your draw, but merely think about it as you line up and shoot the shot. A lot of times I find that actually putting on the extra will be too much, but just thinking about it gives it just the edge I need.
I've learned primarily through trial and error and I find this is one good way of realigning my shots. I think somebody on AZB had mentioned doing this before and I found that it worked pretty well in cases where you don't need much at all..
You should be making the shot 9-10 times in 10 attempts.
If you had lessons with Scott Lee, then you have the information and tools you need.
Have a trained eye watch you perform the drills...or video tape yourself and analyze it yourself. You may just see yourself in the video, and see right away what your doing wrong.
It's good that you have identified this problem, but now you have to further define the problem...because a well stated problem is half solved.
-Mat P.
Stance
I am guessing that you are approaching the shot slightly different, opening your hips more on one or turning your body slightly. If you feel you are really lined up and aiming correctly on both, have someone watch your stroke and follow through carefully. If your stance is having your body a little out of line your stroke could be a little out of line causing you to hit the ball different then what your seeing and also getting unwanted english.
Try the same shots (cueball position) but move the object ball over to exactly where the ghost ball should be to make the shot. Then do Stop shots 10 times and see if your hitting dead center on the stop shot. This will give a little more feedback than if you keep doing the cut shots over and over.
I am guessing that you are approaching the shot slightly different, opening your hips more on one or turning your body slightly. If you feel you are really lined up and aiming correctly on both, have someone watch your stroke and follow through carefully. If your stance is having your body a little out of line your stroke could be a little out of line causing you to hit the ball different then what your seeing and also getting unwanted english.
Try the same shots (cueball position) but move the object ball over to exactly where the ghost ball should be to make the shot. Then do Stop shots 10 times and see if your hitting dead center on the stop shot. This will give a little more feedback than if you keep doing the cut shots over and over.