I taped off a forearm yesterday with some of the blue painters tape with the intent of installing a leather wrap. Something came up and I didn't install the wrap. I went to pull the tape, and lifted part of the finish. I'm about 99% sure that the reason it lifted was because the surface below was too smooth and didn't have anthing to adhere to. I was wondering what some of you sand to when you're prepping a cue to spray. Do you think that 1000 grit is too shallow/smooth? How deep can you go and still cover the scratches? Thanks.
Sanding between coats of finish
- Thread starter sliprock
- Start date
Sanding for finish...........
600 grit is the absolute minimum that should be used on epoxy sealed wood for the first coat of clear. I am a Dupont user ( but by no means support #24 ) and if you go to their web page and do some searching you can pull up the specs and tech info for each type of coating they manufacture and how to prepare the surfaces and apply each one. Of course you have understand this is just basic general info and you may have to tweak for your own liking and application but it is a good place to start.
Dave
sliprock said:
600 grit is the absolute minimum that should be used on epoxy sealed wood for the first coat of clear. I am a Dupont user ( but by no means support #24 ) and if you go to their web page and do some searching you can pull up the specs and tech info for each type of coating they manufacture and how to prepare the surfaces and apply each one. Of course you have understand this is just basic general info and you may have to tweak for your own liking and application but it is a good place to start.
Dave
sliprock said:
When I prep a cue for finish I never use less than 320 to four hundred grit paper.
For final sanding I do not spin the lathe, I sand in only one direction mostly from the small end to the larger end with the grain of the wood.
I start with the heaviest grit paper that I used and I final sand with 320.
I then use a clear oil finish also applied by hand, I then take a paper towel and spin the cue in the lathe applying the paper the length of the area I am working on, I do this to remove any excess oil finish and other material that may be on the surface.
Then I inspect the surface for any scratches, the oil finish will high light these as darker areas.
I then let the oil finish absorb 24 hour's before applying clear finish on top.
This works very well for me, there most certainly may be better ways, but I am self taught and this is what I have learned over time.
PS. By using the clear oil finish before the clear coat, it will greatly intensify the contour of the wood, by giving the cue a 3D wet appearance.
One thing I forgot, before applying the oil finish, I also very lightly spin the forearm in the lathe and wipe it down with a damp cloth. This small amount of moisture will open up the pours of the wood and allow the oil the finish to be absorbed into the pours
Hope this helps!
Manwon
This is not the point of your post, but I have found that some blue painters tape will pull material up, and some won't. I was doing some painting earlier this year and threw away some of it because it would pull paint up just after staying over night. Scotch 3M I think was what I found to do a better job.
Kelly
Kelly
I have been in the painting trade for about 11 yrs and the blue usually sticks the best or hardest, green sticks a bit less, thats the one I have always used because of that. And there is another out that is purple that is supposed to stick even less. I haven't tried that one though.
Jason
Jason
I sand my cues with 220, then 400 before spraying. I spray 9-12 coats over 3-4 sessions. I sand with 400 in between sessions. After the final sessions I sand with 400 to "denib", followed by 600 before polishing.
You have to pull the tape up when your paint is still wet.
Blonde Shellac really brings out the color in the wood. Works well for sealing rings also.
You have to pull the tape up when your paint is still wet.
Blonde Shellac really brings out the color in the wood. Works well for sealing rings also.
I use the green tape from 3m, the blue does stick alittle harder, but I've also used it before, and it should'nt pull the finish off that easy if cured well, and cleaned correctly before clearcoating. 1000 is really slick though, and some finishes may have a hard time sticking. I really don't go any higher then 600 in between coats myself, and sometimes that seems too smooth too me, but that's just Me. Buffing & polishing is another story though.
I use to worry about having the cue really smooth between coats, even use to wetsand LOL, but It does'nt seem all that important to me now, as any swirls seem to blend in fine with 600, proper sanding & cleaning. It's the fish eyes I sometimes have issues with what I'm using now to finish with.
Chips will come off with tape too, but Even on a vehicle the paint can peel off the primer If the surface was'nt just right. The products you use to clean, seal, and topcoat with, need to work together also. Alot of finishes fail due to uncompatible products.
BTW, If your taping the wrap groove off, then you may just need a method for it that works for you. I have used several. 1 was to simply pull the tape while wet as mentioned already, another was to let it dry mount a sharp thin tool In the post to cut the tape loose from the finish, but that can lift the finish also, if you don't get a sharp tool for it, and back the other side up with paper to keep the edge from raising. Another that sometimes works is to sand the finish alittle with the tape still on, just enough to thin the finish at the tape seam out some, and if luckly the tape may pull off cleanly. Notice I mentioned If lucky. don't sand toward the forearm though, always sand toward the wrap groove, and use clean paper so your not loading a piece up from the tape area then putting it on the good part of the finish.
Once you get the tape to pull cleanly, you get to have more fun figuring out how the clean the groove faces up without chipping them. Sometimes you get lucky and don't have to when doing a finish job, but not all the time.
I have'nt decided on My standard pin size yet, so still have'nt got a set of sanding mandrels. What I have been doing for the joint lately is sealing before installing the pin, then I match the shaft up, and spray them while screwed together. at just the right time during the flash, I grab the wrap groove area, and above the finish on the shaft, and unscrew them. If you do at the perfect time, the result is a perfect joint that just needs micromesh to take the sharp edge off. If You wait too long and let it dry, then It might shatter the finish when you unscrew, and too soon the faces will get saturated, and you'll have to reface. Obviously that can't be done at the wrap groove though, because that would be too easy LOL.
Good Luck with it,
Greg
I use to worry about having the cue really smooth between coats, even use to wetsand LOL, but It does'nt seem all that important to me now, as any swirls seem to blend in fine with 600, proper sanding & cleaning. It's the fish eyes I sometimes have issues with what I'm using now to finish with.
Chips will come off with tape too, but Even on a vehicle the paint can peel off the primer If the surface was'nt just right. The products you use to clean, seal, and topcoat with, need to work together also. Alot of finishes fail due to uncompatible products.
BTW, If your taping the wrap groove off, then you may just need a method for it that works for you. I have used several. 1 was to simply pull the tape while wet as mentioned already, another was to let it dry mount a sharp thin tool In the post to cut the tape loose from the finish, but that can lift the finish also, if you don't get a sharp tool for it, and back the other side up with paper to keep the edge from raising. Another that sometimes works is to sand the finish alittle with the tape still on, just enough to thin the finish at the tape seam out some, and if luckly the tape may pull off cleanly. Notice I mentioned If lucky. don't sand toward the forearm though, always sand toward the wrap groove, and use clean paper so your not loading a piece up from the tape area then putting it on the good part of the finish.
Once you get the tape to pull cleanly, you get to have more fun figuring out how the clean the groove faces up without chipping them. Sometimes you get lucky and don't have to when doing a finish job, but not all the time.
I have'nt decided on My standard pin size yet, so still have'nt got a set of sanding mandrels. What I have been doing for the joint lately is sealing before installing the pin, then I match the shaft up, and spray them while screwed together. at just the right time during the flash, I grab the wrap groove area, and above the finish on the shaft, and unscrew them. If you do at the perfect time, the result is a perfect joint that just needs micromesh to take the sharp edge off. If You wait too long and let it dry, then It might shatter the finish when you unscrew, and too soon the faces will get saturated, and you'll have to reface. Obviously that can't be done at the wrap groove though, because that would be too easy LOL.
Good Luck with it,
Greg
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sliprock said:
What ever grit you use, always finish off each grit, WITH THE GRAIN. I finish with 600 & have for 20 years, with no problem...JER
Just dont use 40 grit. 
Thanks all for the responses. I think that my original post might have been a little fuzzy. My problem occured on a forearm that had been painted for several days. The paint was dry and had been wet sanded and buffed. I was taping off the forearm to prevent the glue from the leather wrap getting on the finish. It was when I removed the tape I noticed that I had pulled off a spot in the finish. The area in question was super smooth and I don't think that the finish in that area adheared. Thanks again.
sliprock said:
I think you main problem may be from using the wrong paper, the other may be, what and how, are you sealing the cue?
Kelly_Guy said:
There are also two different blue painters tape. One is a lower tack and has an orange cardboard core. This is what I use. Also, do not leave the tape on for extended periods of time. It allows the adhesive to get a good bite into the finish.
Buffing compound
Anyone use white or red buffing compound on a flannel/cotton buffing wheel after the final sanding? I have seen this used in the luthier trade for mirror-like finishes. I used some white buffing compound with a piece of leather on an old shaft that I cleaned using the microsanding papers (400 to 12,000 grit). The shine it produced was outstanding.
Brian
Anyone use white or red buffing compound on a flannel/cotton buffing wheel after the final sanding? I have seen this used in the luthier trade for mirror-like finishes. I used some white buffing compound with a piece of leather on an old shaft that I cleaned using the microsanding papers (400 to 12,000 grit). The shine it produced was outstanding.
Brian
sliprock said:
If you sand the wood too smooth, there is nothing for the finish to hold on to. Also when removing tape always pull it TOWARDS an edge not away. In other words tape on the forearm, at the juncture of the wrap area, should be pulled towards the wrap. That will help to keep the finish from lifting...JER
Lifting finish
Yes, 1000 grit is too fine prior to applying your finish. That alone may explain the lifting of the finish. There are other possibilities, but you didn't explain the other aspects of your preparation for applying the finish.
Did you use an oil base stain under the finish? This could inhibit the finish from bonding. Even oil from you hands can cause this. Did you wipe down with solvent prior to applying the finish to ensure the surface was clean and free of any oils?
Did you apply a sealer prior to applying the finish? If you did, it may not be compatible with the finish you are using.
How long after applying the finish did you apply the tape? If the finish was not fully cured, the tape may have bonded with the finish as it cured.
Could be any of these or more.
sliprock said:
Yes, 1000 grit is too fine prior to applying your finish. That alone may explain the lifting of the finish. There are other possibilities, but you didn't explain the other aspects of your preparation for applying the finish.
Did you use an oil base stain under the finish? This could inhibit the finish from bonding. Even oil from you hands can cause this. Did you wipe down with solvent prior to applying the finish to ensure the surface was clean and free of any oils?
Did you apply a sealer prior to applying the finish? If you did, it may not be compatible with the finish you are using.
How long after applying the finish did you apply the tape? If the finish was not fully cured, the tape may have bonded with the finish as it cured.
Could be any of these or more.