Screw on or Sleeve type Ferrule .... ???

tenons

WilleeCue said:
I would like to know what other cuemakers think about screw on ferrules verses the sleeve type. Once the epoxy sets is there any meaningful difference in "feel", "hit", or strength?

What about the ferrule tenon size?
Does that make any real difference or does the tenon and ferrule act as one solid part once the eopxy has set.
Click to expand...

Good day guys,
More on what I was saying about threaded ferrules. They do put the tenon in a bind two differant ways. First it does twist the tenon a little bit, and next it's pulling the tenon up towards the top of the ferrule.I think that it should be in a relaxed position, but snug.

I prefer a sleeved type, and or capped type sleeve. If you prep, your tenon with the proper amount of glue cavites, [ groves] no problem. When I use a sleeve type ferrule, I machine the tenon to .254, and machine 3 or 4 cross way groves and then with the lathe turned off, drag machine with a single point tool 4 long ways groves, every 90 degrees. This allows plenty of glue for holding it on. The ferrule is reemed to .250.. .004 smaller than the ferrule.

No problem, using white glue [which is plenty strong] and making a press fit, never had any problems, with cracks and or a moving ferrules. This can also be done with a capped ferrule, just allow room for the top of the ferrule. I built a press jig. that has a 14mm hole in one end for 7/8", deep, and a 5/16" hole below that. It's round and mounted on a steel plate, just apply the white glue to the tenon, start the ferrule on by hand, place the ferrule in the jig, hold it straight up, take a soft rubber headed hammer and pop the big end of the shaft two times, and it's pressed on. The white glue will soften the edges of the tennon and allow you to make it up. The glue groves hold just the right amount of glue. machine the face, and put the blud tip on, and shape, and bet high..

blud
 
BiG_JoN said:
Hey Edwin,

If you are concerned about the structural integrity of that style ferrule, why not try this one. All you would have to do is make a boring bar small enough to do the blind hole thingie... I came up with this one a long time ago, but never tried it...

ProtoFerrule.JPG


Thanks,

Jon
Click to expand...
Good luck in designing your hole saw. :D
I don't think ferrule can be totally square to the shoulder because of the threads and the flat at the bottom of the cap is not really going to be totally flat.
 
Hey, thanks Jon. You're quite a technical illustrator yourself.

Here are what I'd like to achieve in improving on the current outdated design:
1. Decrease the weight at the tip end without sacrificing the intended function of the ferrule.
2. Improve performance while decreasing structural strength flaws of the current design.

I think that such alterations will have a better chance for market acceptance once they see a top pro (Efren) playing with it.
Edwin Reyes
 
strength

BiG_JoN said:
Hey Edwin,

If you are concerned about the structural integrity of that style ferrule, why not try this one. All you would have to do is make a boring bar small enough to do the blind hole thingie... I came up with this one a long time ago, but never tried it...

ProtoFerrule.JPG


Thanks,

Jon
Click to expand...

Hi Jon,
I got to disagree with your design. It's a very nice drawing. The tenon is no stronger than it's smallest part, [the threads] so why have it stepped to fit tight within the top portiton of your capped ferrule?
It looks real good, but why machine threads that are smaller than the end?
It's like a chain, it's not stronger than it's weakest link.If your concerned about strength, why not make your tenon shorter and have the step at towards the base larger than the threads. I think this would make a better tenon. The norm for wood threads is that they need to be 3 times the dia., of the tenon, for there length.
Example, a tennon at .250, needs to be at least .750 long, by doing this, you can have a capped ferrule with a .125 cap, and a stepped shoulder .125 long, making up the 1". In my opinion, this would be a better design than yours with a smaller tenon, with a bigger sleeved end cap, which won't fit any way, if I'm seeing your drawing correctly? The threads can't go over the cap and fit the threads.

blud
 
Last edited:
Hi Jon,
I got to disagree with your design. It's a very nice drawing. The tenon is no stronger than it's smallest part, [the threads] so why have it stepped to fit tight within the top portiton of your capped ferrule?
It looks real good, but why machine threads that are smaller than the end?
It's like a chain, it's not stronger than it's weakest link.If your concerned about strength, why not make your tenon shorter and have the step at towards the base larger than the threads. I think this would make a better tenon. The norm for wood threads is that they need to be 3 times the dia., of the tenon, for there length.
Example, a tennon at .250, needs to be at least .750 long, by doing this, you can have a capped ferrule with a .125 cap, and a stepped shoulder .125 long, making up the 1". In my opinion, this would be a better design than yours with a smaller tenon, with a bigger sleeved end cap, which won't fit any way, if I'm seeing your drawing correctly? The threads can't go over the cap and fit the threads.

blud
Click to expand...

First off, i don't want anybody to think that, that is the way i do my ferrules, because it isn't. It was just an idea i came up with about a year and a half ago, and never got around to trying it.
I understand everything you are saying. I like my ferrules (with a different thread than 5/16-18) @ .875 long, with a .125 cap, leaving a little under .750" for the tennon, with a step shoulder either at .375" or .250".

By the way, i got the design from the predator ferrule, after hearing about people plugging them (the shafts) up and using a normal tennon. So just imagine a predator ferrule, with threads on the bottom like what is shown. I'm attaching a picture of the shaft as well, just to show what it would be like. It's possible, but it would take some really tight tolerances. I won't be trying it for awhile though, so don't worry :) .

ProtoFerrule-Shaft.JPG


Thanks,

Jon

This is fun :D
 
WilleeCue said:
I would like to know what other cuemakers think about screw on ferrules verses the sleeve type. Once the epoxy sets is there any meaningful difference in "feel", "hit", or strength?

What about the ferrule tenon size?
Does that make any real difference or does the tenon and ferrule act as one solid part once the eopxy has set.
Click to expand...


I like a 3/8" un-threaded tennon. I don't run it all the way throught the ferrule. I like a little cap for strength. I cut glue reliefs in the ferrule and tennon and make it fit right for the type of glue that I use. If you do it right you can ring off the wood before the ferrule will break loose.
 
shaft wood

Hey murry,

About ready to order the wood dowels, within about two weeks. Give me a call when you can.
830-232-5991
blud
 
dowels

Sorry guys, I forgot to mention, if any of you want some real good shaft wood, give me a call. 830-232-5991
Normal yeild is about 90 to 95% out of a 100. Growth rings are from 12 to 18 per inch. All my customers who have purchased these in the past, do re-order.

As most of you know, I tell it like it is. Best I have had for 30 years..Clean, white many growth rings, and stable. Wood be real good.

blud
 
blud said:
Hey murry,

About ready to order the wood dowels, within about two weeks. Give me a call when you can.
830-232-5991
blud
Click to expand...

I'll give you a call next week I hope. I'm sitting here looking down the barrel of hurricane Charlie. I have a crew working right now trying to get all my welding machines inside the warehouse and get the steel plate out of the racks and tarped up to protect it from the rain. We've been at it since about midnight and I think it is going to be a long day.
 
blud said:
Sorry guys, I forgot to mention, if any of you want some real good shaft wood, give me a call. 830-232-5991
Normal yeild is about 90 to 95% out of a 100. Growth rings are from 12 to 18 per inch. All my customers who have purchased these in the past, do re-order.

As most of you know, I tell it like it is. Best I have had for 30 years..Clean, white many growth rings, and stable. Wood be real good.

blud
Click to expand...

I was at Blud's shop a few weeks ago and looked at the first batch he got in.
He aint kidding about this wood being good shaft Maple.
I dont have his experience at judging wood but of the 8 random blanks I bought from him ALL were what I would call A++.
Wish I could buy 100 of them as that would last me more than a year but alas I am but a poor strugling cuemaker with a very limited budget.
 
WilleeCue said:
I was at Blud's shop a few weeks ago and looked at the first batch he got in.
He aint kidding about this wood being good shaft Maple.
I dont have his experience at judging wood but of the 8 random blanks I bought from him ALL were what I would call A++.
Wish I could buy 100 of them as that would last me more than a year but alas I am but a poor strugling cuemaker with a very limited budget.
Click to expand...
Join the club :D .

Thanks,

Jon :p
 
Buddha Jones said:
Man, I just love reading threads like this.
Click to expand...
Yessirree... Quite rare to read a whole bunch of posts and nothing to say from my part.

About the topic, I bought a brand new... umm.. okay, Longoni cue (had second thoughts about revealing the cue brand) in the mid 90's. After two weeks of play, it started making a sort of cracking sound. I checked the tip, which was okay. Then one day my friend was looking at the cue, and the ferrule came clean off. I was unthreaded and apparently didn't have enough glue cavities because we couldn't see any glue anywhere on the tenon or the ferrule. Then we glued the ferrule together, but didn't know much about cues back then and used too much glue and we couldn't get the ferrule all the way back to its original position leaving a thin gap between the end of the ferrule and wood. Sold it as soon as I could and got some money out of it to buy a new cue, but different brand :)

Didn't leave of good impression on their workmanship... but, I never contacted the Longoni factory. Maybe I should've...
 
gap

mjantti said:
Yessirree... Quite rare to read a whole bunch of posts and nothing to say from my part.

About the topic, I bought a brand new... umm.. okay, Longoni cue (had second thoughts about revealing the cue brand) in the mid 90's. After two weeks of play, it started making a sort of cracking sound. I checked the tip, which was okay. Then one day my friend was looking at the cue, and the ferrule came clean off. I was unthreaded and apparently didn't have enough glue cavities because we couldn't see any glue anywhere on the tenon or the ferrule. Then we glued the ferrule together, but didn't know much about cues back then and used too much glue and we couldn't get the ferrule all the way back to its original position leaving a thin gap between the end of the ferrule and wood. Sold it as soon as I could and got some money out of it to buy a new cue, but different brand :)

Didn't leave of good impression on their workmanship... but, I never contacted the Longoni factory. Maybe I should've...
Click to expand...

Hi mikko, problem is , it sounds as if you had to much glue on top of the tenon or to much on the tenon, and when replacing the tenon, glue got on top of the tenon.. What happens, is you now have hydriliac pressure build up on top of the tenon. Next time, try removing the tip, and make sure there a small "weep' hole drilled in the center of the ferrule, this is a glue relife hole, and lets the glue come out, and now allowing you to seat the ferrule in the proper place.

blud
 
mjantti said:
Sold it as soon as I could and got some money out of it to buy a new cue, but different brand :) Didn't leave of good impression on their workmanship... but, I never contacted the Longoni factory. Maybe I should've...
Click to expand...

Do you sell your car as soon as something goes wrong with it?
Sometimes sh*t happens.
I would think a proper repair would have lasted the life of the cue.
Did you like the cue or were you looking for a reason to sell it?
 
call

WilleeCue said:
Do you sell your car as soon as something goes wrong with it?
Sometimes sh*t happens.
I would think a proper repair would have lasted the life of the cue.
Did you like the cue or were you looking for a reason to sell it?
Click to expand...


Hey willie, call me

blud
830-232-5991
 
WilleeCue said:
Do you sell your car as soon as something goes wrong with it?
Sometimes sh*t happens.
I would think a proper repair would have lasted the life of the cue.
Did you like the cue or were you looking for a reason to sell it?
Click to expand...

Dunno. I guess I was feeling that if the ferrule comes off after 2 weeks of play, there could be other flaws as well. So I sold the cue, before something else would have gone wrong. And there are hardly any cue repairs people here in Finland so I really didn't have anyone I was able to send the cue domestically. I did like the cue but actually I got my hands on a very solid hitting Bear cue right after the repair and got a good deal on the Longoni cue with the same person. And the Bear cue proved to be one of the best cues I've ever hit and I played with it for 6 years. Now I have just purchased another Bear cue and like it very much...
 
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