Scrim Layout for Upcoming ER

[Rackin_Zack]

JimBo has said from time to time, "STOP CUE DESIGN THEFT!!!!!!"

I wonder if the make of this Cue who I assume is Selling it to a Second Party has the Permission to use their Images/Likenesses for Commercial purposes?

Scrimshaw is Beautiful

This wouldn't be design theft, it's a copywrite infringement and from past threads it appears that I shouldn't even ask the subject of the photo but the photographer. Since I got the pictures from their websites and the photographers aren't listed that wasn't possible. I did, however, send each of the players an email asking for permission and since I got no objections I decided to go ahead with the idea. Our own Jennifer Barretta is the only one who responded to my query. I guess I will find out if the other two don't like the idea once I ask them to sign the certificate in Peoria this August.

For the record JimBo has already accused me of being a stalker...lol.

 

[Rackin_Zack]

All I can say is WOOOOOOOOOOW!!!!!!!! You are very lucky Zack!

Yes, I am indeed! I will have quite the little collection once I get all of the cues I have on order. The hardest thing will be which cue to play with at any given time!

 

[Rackin_Zack]

You won't be disappointed. This 60"er is estimated to have a natural final weight of 19.5 ozs. and 18.5" from bumper balance point. I've test played a R7 match with it and the feel transfer to stroking fingers is great but a li'l on the harsh side due to the absence of its leather wrap. I've got a feeling that this will never set foot on your display case.

I think you are absolutely right! I can't wait to be able to give my first review of how the cue plays and post some detailed pictures for the group!!

 

[classiccues]

JimBo has said from time to time, "STOP CUE DESIGN THEFT!!!!!!"

I wonder if the make of this Cue who I assume is Selling it to a Second Party has the Permission to use their Images/Likenesses for Commercial purposes?

Scrimshaw is Beautiful

Thank you.. but I can't wait for Jimbo's infinite wisdom to rain down on this topic.. Oh wait.. Edwin made him a cue, you won't hear a thing...

Joe

 

[Regulator1956]

This wouldn't be design theft, it's a copywrite infringement and from past threads it appears that I shouldn't even ask the subject of the photo but the photographer. Since I got the pictures from their websites and the photographers aren't listed that wasn't possible.

Asked my lawyer.

If you download the photos, print them and place them on your wall at home (not your office) - no issues.

If you download the photos, put them on a cue that you build and keep - no issues.

If you download the photos, send them to a cue maker who modifies them, puts them on a cue that you buy and keep - gray area.

If you sell the cue - probably a violation. He said it depends on price, timing, etc.

If the cue maker downloads the photos and uses them on a cue he sells, or sells another cue with the photos you sent - definite violation.

Something about private or "fair use" compared to commercial use.

The subjects of the photos have no rights if they were in a public place or a place where photos were allowed. They are "public" figures since they are pros. The copywrite is weakened by the photos not being attributed.

He also said that an individual can make an exact copy of any cue (or most anything else) and keep it for their personal use. In theory, it can never be sold, though it can be willed to a heir. You can even go to the Patent Office website, download anything you want, create it and use it personally (no business use) without any issues. Interesting.

 

[Rackin_Zack]

Asked my lawyer.

If you download the photos, send them to a cue maker who modifies them, puts them on a cue that you buy and keep - gray area.

Interesting.

Interesting indeed! I guess my cue falls under the gray area then...lol. Thanks for the info!

 

[Bruce S. de Lis]

Asked my lawyer.

If you download the photos, print them and place them on your wall at home (not your office) - no issues.

If you download the photos, put them on a cue that you build and keep - no issues.

If you download the photos, send them to a cue maker who modifies them, puts them on a cue that you buy and keep - gray area.

If you sell the cue - probably a violation. He said it depends on price, timing, etc.

If the cue maker downloads the photos and uses them on a cue he sells, or sells another cue with the photos you sent - definite violation.

Something about private or "fair use" compared to commercial use.

The subjects of the photos have no rights if they were in a public place or a place where photos were allowed. They are "public" figures since they are pros. The copywrite is weakened by the photos not being attributed.

He also said that an individual can make an exact copy of any cue (or most anything else) and keep it for their personal use. In theory, it can never be sold, though it can be willed to a heir. You can even go to the Patent Office website, download anything you want, create it and use it personally (no business use) without any issues. Interesting.

I am not a Lawyer, or Trained in Law, but find you post almost on the mark. I was a FREELANCE Photojournalist, and think there is a GRAY AREA when you stated.

“The subjects of the photos have no rights if they were in a public place or a place where photos were allowed. They are "public" figures since they are pros. The copyright is weakened by the photos not being attributed.”

As the image are being used in a Commercial Enterprise, ( Cue for Resale) not for Editorial Usage, where as long as you do not SLANDER ANYONE you are fine.

I still receive Royalties, or Commissions on some Images I shot years ago, as those images are my Property. Like words to a Song, or Music i copyrighted.

 

[JimBo]

Thank you.. but I can't wait for Jimbo's infinite wisdom to rain down on this topic.. Oh wait.. Edwin made him a cue, you won't hear a thing...

Joe

Poor, Poor Scorned ex girlfriend, don't worry Joe time heals all wounds, you'll get over it.

On to the topic, I think he covers his ass by asking and I think it would be wrong if he were going to try to profit from their images. But most important is to ask and he did that. As far as Edwin goes I would be against him if he were stealing cue designs, as I've said 2 million times now I don't care who does it I am against it. Of course when you are a scorned lil girl you ignore that part.

Jim

 

[Rackin_Zack]

I am not a Lawyer, or Trained in Law, but find you post almost on the mark. I was a FREELANCE Photojournalist, and think there is a GRAY AREA when you stated.

“The subjects of the photos have no rights if they were in a public place or a place where photos were allowed. They are "public" figures since they are pros. The copyright is weakened by the photos not being attributed.”

As the image are being used in a Commercial Enterprise, ( Cue for Resale) not for Editorial Usage, where as long as you do not SLANDER ANYONE you are fine.

I still receive Royalties, or Commissions on some Images I shot years ago, as those images are my Property. Like words to a Song, or Music i copyrighted.

So, are you saying that I am breaking the law by having Edwin use those photos for my cue? I waited over a month for replies from Jeanette and Allison before I decided to go ahead and send them. The way I read it, since I sent the pictures to Edwin and the cue is for me and not for resale, that would fall under personal private use and not commercial enterprise, but then again I'm not a lawyer either.

 

[ScottR]

So, are you saying that I am breaking the law by having Edwin use those photos for my cue? I waited over a month for replies from Jeanette and Allison before I decided to go ahead and send them. The way I read it, since I sent the pictures to Edwin and the cue is for me and not for resale, that would fall under personal private use and not commercial enterprise, but then again I'm not a lawyer either.

Sorry I brought this whole thing up, Zack! Better let me keep the cue when you get it. Just in case the feds come looking for it.

I might have to get Gerda joint protectors for it though.

 

[Rackin_Zack]

Sorry I brought this whole thing up, Zack! Better let me keep the cue when you get it. Just in case the feds come looking for it.

I might have to get Gerda joint protectors for it though.

I doubt very seriously that the photographers of the Jeanette and Allison pictures are going to sue me for damages. I'd offer to sell it to you, but that would then take it out of the grey area and put it into the clear violation.

Yeah, I wanted to put Gerda on it as well, but I could only have three. I basically drew straws for the three...lol.

 

[gforces1911]

On another note

The cue looks fantastic! Intricate inlay work and the image reduction is insane. Cannot wait to hear about the hit as well. Zack, I doubt that anyone will spend the time or money to hunt someone down on a 1/1 piece and then bring you to justice esp. when it amounts to a tribute piece. Now, if he were marketing these and mass producing them then that would be something different.

As far as arguments go this is pretty much like all of the tattoo artist in the world who are putting cartoon images on the human body. Just does not seem likely that everyone is being hunted on that issue. Hope that example is not out of line/ignorant of the law. I happen to be a lawyer, but I am not a patent, copyright, entertainment, or contract lawyer.

ER- thanks again for taking on the project. Glad to see that the cues have taken on individuality and that you are willing to do more than you originally planned in order to create something that you will be happy with. You are exhibiting the traits of an artist and not just a cuemaker and that is to be commended in todays climate of quickbucking everything to death. I am excited to see where your artistic talents go with my cue and I am patient enough to wait for the results. Just don't keep me in suspense for too long You know you have free range with design on mine- I know it will come out great.

On another note, the printouts on the forum comments will be really interesting for the cues in terms of provenance. The old cuemakers never had their works debated with such spirit and heat in an organized and archived world. I was thinking that in 50 years it will be interesting if the cue comes in and someone has all of the documentation surrounding the cue.

Okay that is enough, I have to ready myself for the forthcoming personal attacks. Bring it on!

 

[monski]

wow wow weeee!!! Very nice composition and the execution is fantastic. I'm still dreaming ...

 

[classiccues]

Poor, Poor Scorned ex girlfriend, don't worry Joe time heals all wounds, you'll get over it.

On to the topic, I think he covers his ass by asking and I think it would be wrong if he were going to try to profit from their images. But most important is to ask and he did that. As far as Edwin goes I would be against him if he were stealing cue designs, as I've said 2 million times now I don't care who does it I am against it. Of course when you are a scorned lil girl you ignore that part.

Jim

HEy crybaby.. just try for once in your life to be consistent. If you read he asked and got no reply, I guess that makes it ok, at least in Jimbo's world. So Edwin not adhereing to US copyright laws is OK as long as its not cue design theft? Way to go Jimmy, you just keep looking like the great guy you think you are.. lol

One last note, I think its a great cue, and Zack will be very happy.

Joe (--BTW I don't ignore it, which is why I can and will call you on it everytime you don't say something before I do

 

[Bruce S. de Lis]

So, are you saying that I am breaking the law by having Edwin use those photos for my cue? I waited over a month for replies from Jeanette and Allison before I decided to go ahead and send them. The way I read it, since I sent the pictures to Edwin and the cue is for me and not for resale, that would fall under personal private use and not commercial enterprise, but then again I'm not a lawyer either.

As I said I was a Freelance Photojournalist about 10 years ago. Use of Images, Trademarks, Logo, Disney, Warner Bros. Characters etc. is a very interesting subject.

You say you got permission for the make of your Cue to use the images, so i see no problem.

But lets talk about a Photo or Image as it worked in the world I worked in. I shoot a photo of tom Cruse leaving the airport, and a Magazine or New Paper uses that image for EDITORIAL Usage (to illustrate a story about Tom) no problem. Same Photo is used in a Nike advertisement as Tom is wearing a Nike Shirt in the picture. but the photo is used without Tom’s Permission. Foul as tom is owed compensation for usage as it was used in advertising. Same picture again, this time a Photo Pirate use the photo for some t-Shirt, button, or other CommerciaL Usage. In that case both Tom & I could be owned for usage.

Like I said, you said you got permission to use the images for your Cue so you did the correct thing.

When my wife was in High School her Year Books Theme was Peanuts Characters, the Year Book committee wrote Charles Schmaltz and ask to use his Character for their Year Book theme. Schultz said yes, and a copy of the letter from Schultz is part of the year book.

Copyright, Patient, Trademark, and Logo laws is a very interesting subject.

 

[Bruce S. de Lis]

Thought I would share a NOT FUNNY Story that happened to a Friend who was a Stock photographer in Northern California.

Tom had about 150,000 images he sold on a regular basis for Editorial usage, and almost all were not Model released.

Some group hit him up for “Clown Photos” and he gave them usage of a couple of his Stock photos.

The group decided to use one picture on a Fund Raising Calendar, and the photo was of a Shriner Clown. Well to make a long story short the Clown, ask for Compensation for Use of His Picture on the Calendar as the Calendars were Sold.

Tom turned over the request to his insurance company, and apparently the Clown received payment from Tom Insurance Company, the Group that Sold the Calendar, and also the Printer who Printer the Calendar. Apparently all were named in a Law Suit that never went to Court but was settled out of Court.

Apparently the Shriner donate the money he got from the Defendants to a Shriner Hospital, and had a Pro-bono Shriner Buddy who was an Attorney handle the case for him.

Tom never got one cent of compensation for use of the Photo on the Calendar, but was caught in the Middle.

End of Story.

 

[Rackin_Zack]

Thought I would share a NOT FUNNY Story that happened to a Friend who was a Stock photographer in Northern California.

Tom had about 150,000 images he sold on a regular basis for Editorial usage, and almost all were not Model released.

Some group hit him up for “Clown Photos” and he gave them usage of a couple of his Stock photos.

The group decided to use one picture on a Fund Raising Calendar, and the photo was of a Shriner Clown. Well to make a long story short the Clown, ask for Compensation for Use of His Picture on the Calendar as the Calendars were Sold.

Tom turned over the request to his insurance company, and apparently the Clown received payment from Tom Insurance Company, the Group that Sold the Calendar, and also the Printer who Printer the Calendar. Apparently all were named in a Law Suit that never went to Court but was settled out of Court.

Apparently the Shriner donate the money he got from the Defendants to a Shriner Hospital, and had a Pro-bono Shriner Buddy who was an Attorney handle the case for him.

Tom never got one cent of compensation for use of the Photo on the Calendar, but was caught in the Middle.

End of Story.

What percentage of the sale is the royalty usually?

 

[Bruce S. de Lis]

What percentage of the sale is the royalty usually?

Your Question is confusing me. But I can think of One Photo I took in about 93, that SOLD and SOLD, and paid me in excess of $5,000.00. On the other hand many photos I took never made me a Penny.

 

[Rackin_Zack]

Your Question is confusing me. But I can think of One Photo I took in about 93, that SOLD and SOLD, and paid me in excess of $5,000.00. On the other hand many photos I took never made me a Penny.

I assume royalties work as a per item type deal, thus, for each item sold there will be a percentage of the cost that will be paid as a royalty. For instance, if a CD sells for $15.00 and the artist gets a $1.00 royalty for the sale then they get six and two thirds percent royalty.

 

[JimBo]

HEy crybaby.. just try for once in your life to be consistent. If you read he asked and got no reply, I guess that makes it ok, at least in Jimbo's world. So Edwin not adhereing to US copyright laws is OK as long as its not cue design theft? Way to go Jimmy, you just keep looking like the great guy you think you are.. lol

One last note, I think its a great cue, and Zack will be very happy.

Joe (--BTW I don't ignore it, which is why I can and will call you on it everytime you don't say something before I do

Joe the best thing for you to do and for this forum would be for you to post your own opinion. Nobody cares that you are an obsessed scorned ex lover. Nobody cares what you think of what my opinion might be. I don't feel the need to comment on every cue posted here nor do I have that much time. Just because I don't post or don't post right away doesn't mean that I condone the behavior or think its ok. Believe it or not I don't have strong opinions on every issue. He asked a legal question, one I don't have the answer to, I gave my opinion and it had nothing to do with design theft, why you feel a need to try and tie that into every post is a mystery. Get over it Joe.

Jim