Scruggs

louieatienza said:
Well by definition tge knot is end grain, so at the very least it needs to be sealed it would just suck up finish like a straw.

I'm sure he had noissues turning that butt, at the same time I doubt he took that knot for granted,especially when cutting in the points.

There had been a few acoustic guitar builders who used knotty woodto prove it not the woid, but the maker...
Click to expand...

Sealing is standard so as I said at least THAT was done. If I were to ever use any wood with knots I might use some CA or thin epoxy and hope it seeps in.. But I wouldn't make it a practice to use wood with knots for cues.

Being a musician, I haven't seen many if any guitars that I can recall with knots in them especially acoustics. That could be a disaster waiting to happen... I'm sure I prabably have just must "knot" have thought it was a big deal.:wink:
 
skins said:
Sealing is standard so as I said at least THAT was done. If I were to ever use any wood with knots I might use some CA or thin epoxy and hope it seeps in.. But I wouldn't make it a practice to use wood with knots for cues.

Being a musician, I haven't seen many if any guitars that I can recall with knots in them especially acoustics. That could be a disaster waiting to happen... I'm sure I prabably have just must "knot" have thought it was a big deal.:wink:
Click to expand...

Bob Benedetto, one of the premier archtop builders of all time, and Bob Taylor of Taylor Guitars, to name a couple. I built an arched back guitar of knotted jackfruit wood, which survived well.

It wouldn't be my first choice, nor yours nor the two Bobs, but as a challenge it can be a good exercise in demonstrating that it is the archer not the bow. In Benedetto's case it was construction 2 x 10s, and with Taylor it was pallet wood. Both controversial in their times, and both well received in terms of sound...

Scruggs probably did it because ke knew he could, knew it would play just as well also...
 
Last edited:
louieatienza said:
Scruggs probably did it because ke knew he could, knew it would play just as well also...
Click to expand...

In those days, some of us knew, and visited Tim, and we selected pieces of wood for our cues. There is a good chance a customer selected, and approved, this piece of wood. Some of you are putting this "Knot" decision on Tim. "Knot" necessarily. In those days, some of us selected some highly figured pieces of wood. Even birdseye is diseased wood, for those who don't know. I suspect the customer was fine with the selection. It's good for others to knot be too quick to judge.

All the best,
WWk
 
Last edited:
louieatienza said:
Bob Benedetto, one of the premier archtop builders of all time, and Bob Taylor of Taylor Guitars, to name a couple. I built an arched back guitar of knotted jackfruit wood, which survived well.

It wouldn't be my first choice, nor yours nor the two Bobs, but as a challenge it can be a good exercise in demonstrating that it is the archer not the bow. In Benedetto's case it was construction 2 x 10s, and with Taylor it was pallet wood. Both controversial in their times, and both well received in terms of sound...

Scruggs probably did it because ke knew he could, knew it would play just as well also...
Click to expand...

Show me a link to a pic of a Taylor or Bob Benedetto with knots in the wood... Love to see it...

For what those guitars cost I would NEVER pay good $ for a one with a knot(s) in the wood... That for all intensive purposes is considered defective wood in all high end instrument building.
 
WildWing said:
In those days, some of us knew, and visited Tim, and we selected pieces of wood for our cues. There is a good chance a customer selected, and approved, this piece of wood. Some of you are putting this "Knot" decision on Tim. "Knot" necessarily. In those days, some of us selected some highly figured pieces of wood. Even birdseye is diseased wood, for those who don't know. I suspect the customer was fine with the selection. It's good for others to knot be too quick to judge.

All the best,
WWk
Click to expand...

Maybe, maybe knot! It's not judgment but speculation. He would have had to turn that blank down, let it sit, turn it down again, etc... Even if a customer wanted that wood, or even provided it, he would need to determine if it could be used. Then go through the process of prepping it.
 
Last edited:
louieatienza said:
Maybe, maybe knot! It's not judgment but speculation. He would have had to turn that blank down, let it sit, turn it down again, etc... Even if a customer wanted that wood, or even provided it, he would need to determine if it could be used. Then go through the process of prepping it.
Click to expand...

No. If Tim uncovered a problem with the wood, he would do it over, or talk to the customer. He wouldn't just complete the cue with what could be considered a flaw.

With your 39 post count, there is some doubt here...

But, by the way, you have not completed the response to the guitar question posted by Skins.

All the best,
WW
 
WildWing said:
No. If Tim uncovered a problem with the wood, he would do it over, or talk to the customer. He wouldn't just complete the cue with what could be considered a flaw.

With your 39 post count, there is some doubt here...

But, by the way, you have not completed the response to the guitar question posted by Skins.

All the best,
WW
Click to expand...

I've owned 4 Scruggs BTW, three when they could be had for what now is relatively inexpensive, and phone cameras. The first I bought from Executive Billiards in White Plains NY ober 24 years ago. The last I bought from Blatt Billiards in NYC and sold it 7 years ago when I quit. I've even had the pleasure of speaking to both Tim and Mike [Cochran] back in the day (tried unsuccessfully to have them make one more Scruggs sneaky Pete but they stopped making them.

I suppose the welcoming committee is not so welcoming. Just posed my opinion! Were you not also at 39 posts at one time too?

Am at work now, so I'll post pics when I get home. A query on Google for Benedetto 2 x 10 guitar and Taylor pallet guitar should lead to pics. I have Benedetto's book so I'll take a pic from there when I get back. The pallet guitar is pretty well known in the acoustic world.
 
I bet back then no one really obsessed over a knot. Run some racks and if you like it, pay the man his money. Cool spot for a logo.
 
louieatienza said:
......Am at work now, so I'll post pics when I get home. A query on Google for Benedetto 2 x 10 guitar and Taylor pallet guitar should lead to pics. I have Benedetto's book so I'll take a pic from there when I get back. The pallet guitar is pretty well known in the acoustic world.
Click to expand...

Knots?... The pallet guitar does not have knots in it... Searched Benedetto archtop and didnt see any guitars with knots... Not saying he hasn't made one just saying knotty wood is not normally used in high end instuments nor pool cues known by even the slightly skilled woodworkers common sense.
 
skins said:
Knots?... The pallet guitar does not have knots in it... Searched Benedetto archtop and didnt see any guitars with knots... Not saying he hasn't made one just saying knotty wood is not normally used in high end instuments nor pool cues known by even the slightly skilled woodworkers common sense.
Click to expand...

Benedetto made it to prove a point - that even supposedly "inferior" wood, in the master's hands, can make an excellent instrument, where amateur builder and even some experienced builders and plyers would shun the wood because of a negative bias toward supposed "defect." Serial 29293, meaning Benedetto's 292nd guitar, completed 1993. (picture 1, from Making The Archtop Guitar by Bob Benedetto.)

Benedetto also completed a couple "Terado" guitars - using tops that were reclaimed by sunken logs and ravaged by worms (which I believe sold for over $40k!). (picture 2 from BenedettoGuitars.com)

The last two pictures are of a guitar I built, around 2009-2010, using jack fruit wood that I had brought back from the Philippines, and made to give as a gift to my wife's parents. Actually the second acoustic guitar I ever built) I built a few dozen electrics as myself, and shadow-built for a couple local builders.) I have another, smaller log section, that I hope one day to make forearms for my own cue. One day... This wood is super-stable by the way, light yet incredibly resonant.
 

Attachments

  • benny1.jpg
    benny1.jpg
    193.6 KB · Views: 342
  • IlTeredoIIS1929_Top1.jpg
    IlTeredoIIS1929_Top1.jpg
    91.4 KB · Views: 333
  • 007-Back Plate Carved 1.JPG
    007-Back Plate Carved 1.JPG
    50.1 KB · Views: 346
  • 056-Finished 2.JPG
    056-Finished 2.JPG
    53.2 KB · Views: 315
Picture of back of one of the Taylor Pallet guitars: They were actually nail holes... my bad.

Maybe to Taylor, Benedetto, Scruggs, this was their take on wabi-sabi.... the perfection of imperfection... We'll never know for sure, but it's fun discussing....
 

Attachments

  • pallet_guitar2.jpg
    pallet_guitar2.jpg
    70.2 KB · Views: 495
Last edited:
In other words Knot all Knots are the same.



WildWing said:
In those days, some of us knew, and visited Tim, and we selected pieces of wood for our cues. There is a good chance a customer selected, and approved, this piece of wood. Some of you are putting this "Knot" decision on Tim. "Knot" necessarily. In those days, some of us selected some highly figured pieces of wood. Even birdseye is diseased wood, for those who don't know. I suspect the customer was fine with the selection. It's good for others to knot be too quick to judge.

All the best,
WWk
Click to expand...
 
louieatienza said:
Benedetto made it to prove a point - that even supposedly "inferior" wood, in the master's hands, can make an excellent instrument, where amateur builder and even some experienced builders and plyers would shun the wood because of a negative bias toward supposed "defect." Serial 29293, meaning Benedetto's 292nd guitar, completed 1993. (picture 1, from Making The Archtop Guitar by Bob Benedetto.)

Benedetto also completed a couple "Terado" guitars - using tops that were reclaimed by sunken logs and ravaged by worms (which I believe sold for over $40k!). (picture 2 from BenedettoGuitars.com)

The last two pictures are of a guitar I built, around 2009-2010, using jack fruit wood that I had brought back from the Philippines, and made to give as a gift to my wife's parents. Actually the second acoustic guitar I ever built) I built a few dozen electrics as myself, and shadow-built for a couple local builders.) I have another, smaller log section, that I hope one day to make forearms for my own cue. One day... This wood is super-stable by the way, light yet incredibly resonant.
Click to expand...

You're making my point...One picture of a pine wood guitar with a few knots far from makes an argument that knots are acceptable as a "figure" in wood nor would THAT be acceptable in any normal circumstance. It's KNOT. :smile:

In ONLY the extreme of circumstancs would anyone I know accept a cue, OR guitar, with actual knots in them. Then again I may travel in a very limited circle......Maybe Knot :smile:
 
skins said:
You're making my point...One picture of a pine wood guitar with a few knots far from makes an argument that knots are acceptable as a "figure" in wood nor would THAT be acceptable in any normal circumstance. It's KNOT. :smile:

In ONLY the extreme of circumstancs would anyone I know accept a cue, OR guitar, with actual knots in them. Then again I may travel in a very limited circle......Maybe Knot :smile:
Click to expand...

We're both making the same point, in different ways. They are both outliers... but they both prove the point that woods that the masses generally shun don't necessarily mean they cannot function, or even excel, in their intended use. Yes it would take a special someone to own them, but I think it makes them cool....
 
louieatienza said:
We're both making the same point, in different ways. They are both outliers... but they both prove the point that woods that the masses generally shun don't necessarily mean they cannot function, or even excel, in their intended use. Yes it would take a special someone to own them, but I think it makes them cool....
Click to expand...

With respect we are not making the same point...

My point:...You CANT use them and expect consistent buisness sales in the disciplines discussed BECAUSE "they" wont function as normal (to the exceptional level expected for high quality). Period.
 
Last edited:
skins said:
With respect we are not making the same point...

My point:...You CANT use them and expect consistent buisness sales in the disciplines discussed BECAUSE "they" wont function as normal (to the exceptional level expected for high quality). Period.
Click to expand...

Which was NOT the intent of those guitars, and possibly that cue. Benedetto, I believe, still owns the knotty pine guitar, and if it sold would probably command 6 figures. And from all accounts I've read plays and sounds amazing. I bet that Scruggs shoots lights out, too.

Obviously, the sales of Benedetto's guitars and Scruggs cues were not harmed by the release of their "knotty" work.
 
louieatienza said:
Obviously, the sales of Benedetto's guitars and Scruggs cues were not harmed by the release of their "knotty" work.
Click to expand...

Thats because you wont see but maybe one example of each.... Their "normal" work wont have defected wood...The debate is over for me.

Good rolls and picking to ya
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top