could you explain alittle more how you came upon your fractions please?
i am alittle dense...:embarrassed2::embarrassed2:
secret to long table bank shots
- Thread starter judochoke
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could you explain alittle more how you came upon your fractions please?
i am alittle dense...:embarrassed2::embarrassed2:
For the example on the left (kicking to the corner pocket):
- The CB is 2 diamonds "vertically" from the kick/bank cushion, and the kick/bank cushion is 4 diamonds "vertically" from the target - so the CB's total "vertical" travel to the target is 6 diamonds, and the CB travels 1/3 of that total distance to reach the kick/bank cushion.
- If the CB travels 1/3 of its total "vertical" distance to reach the kick/bank cushion, it must also travel 1/3 of its total "sideways" distance (parallel to the kick/bank cushion) to get there.
The fractions of the CB's "vertical" travel distance are dictated by the position of the CB and the target. The fractions of the CB's "sideways" travel distance are chosen to match the fractions of "vertical" travel distance.
Hope that helps,
pj
chgo
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Side-Pocket
Member
I may be way off base here, but after watching videos on numerous methods to bank shots off any rail, I still don't know which is the best method or system. My personal preference after reading both of Freddy Bentivegna's books, is fractional aiming of the OB based on how it lines up to the banking rail. This typically is the method I use to make most of my bank shots and, since I am only an amateur, I make about 35% of the banks I attempt. My accuracy is higher on straight back banks on the short rails.
After all of the systems I've looked at, I still am wondering what system do the pros use? I see players like Thorpe, Woodward, Van Boning, Chohan and others, Reyes in a class by himself, do unbelievable banks and they slam those shots into the pockets. I'm just wondering if they use one system, a combination of several, or they just have the vision for the angle after playing for so long.
It would be really nice to have a path to study one proven method that reallly works for all bank shots, or maybe to know that there isn't just one method that fits all.
After all of the systems I've looked at, I still am wondering what system do the pros use? I see players like Thorpe, Woodward, Van Boning, Chohan and others, Reyes in a class by himself, do unbelievable banks and they slam those shots into the pockets. I'm just wondering if they use one system, a combination of several, or they just have the vision for the angle after playing for so long.
It would be really nice to have a path to study one proven method that reallly works for all bank shots, or maybe to know that there isn't just one method that fits all.
No aiming method works without “user fine tuning” for more than a few pre-defined shots (for example, equal-angle banks/kicks with sliding ball), and even those are vulnerable to visualization errors. Find the one you like best and learn its quirks.
pj
chgo
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All banks and kicks depend on the cushions and cloth. That means there is no one perfect system. There are also all the user errors, as Pat mentioned, as well as the effects of throw and any side spin that gets on the object ball.
What most players don't understand is how hard banks are inherently. The original topic of this post is long banks. If you bank a ball that is on the head spot with the cue ball on the foot spot, the object ball travels about 10 diamonds to get to the pocket. That pocket is very, very far away from the object ball. Also, the cue ball is four diamonds from the object ball, which already makes that part of the shot pretty long. In terms of required accuracy, that long bank requires about four times the accuracy of a spot shot.
Every table Brand bank differently, old v/s new cushions bank differently, new v/s old cloth banks differently.........Practicing is key to working out Banks after doing the math.
“Pool is geometry, in its most challenging form, the science of precise angles, and forces"-Quote from: A Game of Pool, The Twilight Zone 1961 Television Show
“Pool is geometry, in its most challenging form, the science of precise angles, and forces"-Quote from: A Game of Pool, The Twilight Zone 1961 Television Show
The Science of Pocket Billiards by the late Jack Koehler has the best information on banking available.
Read it carefully. He covers many factors, but only a couple of them are really significant. His methods are sound, both in theory and practice. If you reduce your bank shot analysis to the most significant factors, you should do well.
You may have unrealistic expectations, however. Some of the best bank pool players in the world shoot less than 50% en route to winning major tournaments. Shooting 35% may be better than you think.
You can also learn a great deal by watching videos of the best bankers on youtube. Look for the ones with the overhead view. Don't try figuring out where they aim or how much spin they put on the cue ball. Look at the shots they select for successful banks. They all focus on particular types of shots.
boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
Honestly with single rail banks you can get pretty good results with just imagining a pocket out in space. Say you are banking to a side pocket, short way across the table. You just imagine a pocket straight out from the side pocket out in space in a straight line formed by both side pockets. The imaginary pocket is sitting at a the distance the real pockets are from each other. Shoot the OB (or CB for kicking) directly at the imaginary pocket.
This works well for all 1 rail banks and kicks. Obviously table conditions matter and you have have to adjust for speed off the cushions, spin picked up from the cushion, spin you apply, shorten or lengthen with speed etc, but it works really good once you're onto a table. Sitting up a few of these shots and shooting at the imaginary pocket will quickly tune you into a different table.
You can extrapolate this for multi rail stuff and it works pretty well but it's too much to explain here. Basically if you can imagine a "ghost pocket" you can work out. I forget where but I've seen a diagram with a grid matrix made of tables that helps it make more sense.
EDIT: The main benefit to this system is that it works, and more importantly it can really teach you what's going on if you play with it a bit. The reference of the imaginary pocket really tunes you into the various effects that you need to know on banking.
Side-Pocket
Member
It does make sense to take one system and keep practicing it till you can pretty well make most of your shots. My trouble is that I watch a lot of youtube videos on how to bank and try each to see how they work, although I don't stick with them for more than a practice session. As I stated previously, I have had the most success with Freddy's system because I use it the most and seem to always revert back to it when playing against others. I also have watched the "Bugs" Rucker videos to see the way he banks and it seems to be te same as Freddy's.
I do have a copy of "The Science of Pocket Billiards" and will check it out for how it describes bank shot execution. Also, I understand the comments about differences between table cloth and bumpers, but playing primarily on one table, I'm familiar with the way one side of the cushions reacts differently from the other side.
The mirror system has been getting the best of me, because when I've tried to do kicks to pocket a ball close to the pocket, I am always missing the object ball. Each time I measure the mirror distance and the contact point on the rail it never hits the OB. Adjustments always have to be made in order to contact the OB. Trying to mirror a pocket for a bank shot is something that I have to experiment with.
I do have a copy of "The Science of Pocket Billiards" and will check it out for how it describes bank shot execution. Also, I understand the comments about differences between table cloth and bumpers, but playing primarily on one table, I'm familiar with the way one side of the cushions reacts differently from the other side.
The mirror system has been getting the best of me, because when I've tried to do kicks to pocket a ball close to the pocket, I am always missing the object ball. Each time I measure the mirror distance and the contact point on the rail it never hits the OB. Adjustments always have to be made in order to contact the OB. Trying to mirror a pocket for a bank shot is something that I have to experiment with.
Like this...
If visualizing a pocket's mirrored position is difficult for you, you can "triangulate" it - where the relevant lines intersect...
pj
chgo
