Seeking Input: Archer ‘93 vs. Today

[jbart65]

You realize you're talking about seeing them naked??

When you remove an older players ability to make shape and pocket balls by cheating the holes, it takes away a significant part of their game. Many have trouble making the adjustment.

Niels Feijin said in a recent interview players can still cheat the pocket, but with tighter openings, the ball has to be closer to the pocket than in the past.

He has also said he thinks 4-inch pockets are great - the table at his house has 4-inch pockets. Yet he was a notable critic when MR used sub-4-inch pockets in the UK Open in 2023. Players couldn't cheat the pocket, he said, or use the necessary spin.

Small pockets ruining the game

This from a few days ago

forums.azbilliards.com

I don't think MR has used sub-4-inch pockets since then.

 

[xproskier]

The sport has evolved. Equipment has evolved too. Tighter pockets, cues, tips, cloth, Diamond rails, chalk, lighting, instruction, yada yada. Yesterday’s players were fantastic. Even legendary. But today’s players are just better. Period. Maybe not amazingly better given the 4 decades of time, but to a degree, just better. International deeper fields of talented and better players too.

Take other sports such as baseball. Though great respect for the powerful Babe Ruth or the “upper body swingers” like Ted Williams, Babe today probably couldn’t hit the wicked 91mph changeup/slurve aimed at his head, then dropping 14” precisely into the catcher’s glove, directly over the center of the plate! And IF he got a piece of it, it would probably either foul or line to 2nd base where his slow fat ass would simply be thrown out.

Look at football. Yesterday's 4.3 speed in the 40 yard was held sacred for years by the Cheetah-like wide receiver club. Today’s linebackers run that now. And they’ve got hands for the ball.

Maybe it’s just their cleats. LoL

 

[Mensabum]

Niels Feijin said in a recent interview players can still cheat the pocket, but with tighter openings, the ball has to be closer to the pocket than in the past.

He has also said he thinks 4-inch pockets are great - the table at his house has 4-inch pockets. Yet he was a notable critic when MR used sub-4-inch pockets in the UK Open in 2023. Players couldn't cheat the pocket, he said, or use the necessary spin.

Small pockets ruining the game

This from a few days ago

forums.azbilliards.com

I don't think MR has used sub-4-inch pockets since then.

Always considered it a part of the game. A necessary part, for me anyhoo.

 

[JustPlay]

One aspect I don't think anyone has touched on is that back in the day American pro pool players were the ruling class. It was our niche per se. Now the rest of the world now plays and has surpassed overall the US in the game of professional pool. Not to many Americans can compete at the top level of Professional pool today. So the interest on modern pool has faded somewhat for many US fans. Plus, those following and or playing pool in the 80s and 90s are older, working and raising families as well. Earl Strickland, to his credit has been playing up until a few years back a formitable player to these younger players.

 

[Wayne Crimi]

@Wayne Crimi
Related to Fran?
Anyway, A and B players - even amateur division, that can't hit 4" ers are incorrectly rated. Reminds me of musicians that require autotune to sound pro. (Google that if you need to) It's a simple element to hit a ball along its own swath. It's by no means virtuosic. It just requires diligent observation and implementation. It should be fundamental.

Fran is my cousin

Anyone can make balls on any table, but at the margin you are going to miss more on a tighter table and may even tighten up mentally on some of the tougher shots. We don't need buckets, but we don't need begginers getting so frustrated they don't get enough plaseure out of playing to come back.

 

[sudocrushms]

I think switching to 4" pockets was idiotic for the game in general.

I can see the very best players wanting to play with 4" pockets in tournaments because imo that subtly increases the pobability that the better player will win and the best players want every possible advantage.

But we were told small pockets benefited the weaker player!?!? /s

 

[Cicerone88]

I think with worn in cloth 4.5” pockets is plenty tough. Firing balls in with english, shooting balls to the inside or outside of the pocket, and cheating the pocket are all important parts of the game. You reduce the pocket size too much you take away the ability to create angles…which is what nineball is all about.

With that said I understand why matchroom reduced their pockets to 4.25” or less. New cloth and warm tables from the hot TV lights makes the table slide balls in too much. I would only do that for the TV tables though, and wouldn’t go smaller than 4.25”.

 

[straightline]

Fran is my cousin

Anyone can make balls on any table, but at the margin you are going to miss more on a tighter table and may even tighten up mentally on some of the tougher shots. We don't need buckets, but we don't need begginers getting so frustrated they don't get enough plaseure out of playing to come back.

I get this - but also a little tired of the marketing justifications for what is essentially watering the drinks.