Self Confidence -vs- Instruction

Billy_Bob

Billy_Bob

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've noticed that many people will play better if they feel they are playing well, make a few good shots, and are complimented on their shot making ability.

And the opposite is true. Many people will play *worse* if they are losing every game, are making bad shots, and someone tells them why they are missing shots or how they can improve. Tends to be a downward spiral!

But if someone is playing poorly and they make one good shot, then you compliment them on their excellent shot, they suddenly begin to play better.

This is very much a mental game and confidence helps a lot to say the least.

So my question: How can you tell a beginning pool player (who has a *lot* to learn) all the things they can improve on while at the same time keeping their confidence up? Seems there is an endless list of things to learn.

Examples of things they need to be told...

-If you shoot this ball first, it will leave the cue ball in a good position to shoot the next ball.
-If you use follow on that shot, it will leave the cue ball in a better spot to shoot in another ball.
-If you shoot that shot with center, the cue ball will stop right there and your next shot will be quite difficult.
-You can't cut that ball into that pocket, it is impossible because the angle is greater than 90 degrees.
-You *can* cut that ball into the corner and it is better to cut instead of banking, you are more likely to make a cut shot than a bank shot.
-Don't shoot that shot into the side pocket, you only have this much "." of a pocket opening for that ball to go into the side, yet you have this much "........" of a pocket opening if you shoot that shot into the corner.
-Etc.

So how do you tell someone this endless list of things (who wants to learn and is asking for help), and at the same time keep their confidence level up?

Then there is one beginner I play who I can smoke every game. If I win every game, he gets mad and then seems to get discouraged and does not try anymore. If I let him win, he knows I am doing this and gets discouraged. However, over the long term, I have noticed that if I keep winning games when playing him, he takes more and more care with his shots. He is improving quickly. He is determined to beat me. I try to constantly point out what he is doing right along with suggestions on various shots. I know in my heart that the best thing for him is for me to win every game. However I hate to see him get discouraged.

So should I continue to make it "tough" on him or should I make it easy for him to win sometimes?

Suggestions? (Does not matter to me if I win or lose...)
 
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Generally I go in streaks with wins and losses. When I play the ghost I may win 3 or 4 games in a row but then I might lose 5 or 6 in a row. Is this due to my confidence or am I just doing something else wrong? I think it is mostly a confidence issue.

On another note you may be killing another player 4-1 but if you give up 2 games they feel they now have a chance so they will try harder and play much better the last 2 games.
 
Well, you cannot control his level of confidence as he must do that on his own, but u can tell him how to make it easier on himself. Quality Drills help improve his positioning and pocketing ability, which will increase his confidence on making a SHOT, but again, for him to work on confidence itself, that he will need to settle on his own.

As for showing him how to make it easier on himself, is thru his drill practices.... make sure the distance between the pocket, the object ball, and the cue ball are relatively easy to pocket first. Then work on the types of english and strokes that will effect the path of both balls. Then work on the distances between longer. Most people who begin, think of distances first.... why do that? It's too discouraging every time you miss! Also, from a long distance, it is more difficult to analyze what went wrong as opposed to having something really close. So this way when he arrives to a shot, he will know what needs to be done to acheive a certain result. Confidence will no longer matter at that point, it will be more of about experience that will come into play on making the shot. Again, confidence within himself howeve, HE will need to deal with that.

And as far as being tough on him... don't let up.

Just my 2 cents.

Hope that helps.
 
Billy_Bob said:
Examples of things they need to be told...

-If you shoot this ball first, it will leave the cue ball in a good position to shoot the next ball.
-If you use follow on that shot, it will leave the cue ball in a better spot to shoot in another ball.
-If you shoot that shot with center, the cue ball will stop right there and your next shot will be quite difficult.
-You can't cut that ball into that pocket, it is impossible because the angle is greater than 90 degrees.
-You *can* cut that ball into the corner and it is better to cut instead of banking, you are more likely to make a cut shot than a bank shot.
-Don't shoot that shot into the side pocket, you only have this much "." of a pocket opening for that ball to go into the side, yet you have this much "........" of a pocket opening if you shoot that shot into the corner.
-Etc.

...)
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Based on the examples you sited, you are not teaching the player the things they need to know. You are coaching them through the shot. Real instruction involves teaching concepts that can be applied in any situation. It gives the player the knowledge necessary to manage their own game. Like the old saying.....what you are doing is giving your player a fish. You aren't teaching him/her how to fish. The kind of advice you are offering will help them deal with the shot at hand, but you may well need to help them through the next shot as well.

I know you believe that in your case you don't feel that professional instruction would be helpful. For the vast majority, it is the best way to gain the information and knowledge that will allow them to learn how to play pool without someone standing there telling them what they need to do on a particular shot.

Steve
 
Don't underestimate

the power of revenge. It motivates many a Pool player to get better.

Not normally, but sometimes, I will take a little stab at a player that I know wants to get better, but doesn't really dedicate themselves to doing it because I know they will work harder on their game and think about what they are doing more. Nothing bad, just a comment like, 'Well, if you were smart, you would be able to figure it out'. And then they come back 4-6 months later to show me how smart they are .... lol
 
Snapshot9 said:
the power of revenge. It motivates many a Pool player to get better.
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Motivation is usually not the problem. Most players don't know HOW to get better. Quality instruction is the short-cut path to a better game. Like Randy said, via Oz..."they don't know what they don't know". More to the point...when they 'know it all', they REALLY don't know what they don't know!:D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
Billy_Bob said:
(snip) (Does not matter to me if I win or lose...)
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Your motivation doesn't involve winning. What is your opponent's motivation? Knowing that leads you to doing the right thing to help him acheive his goals. Ing.#1 precedes all other fundamentals and must be considered and integrated first, or else when you get to the top of the ladder, you might find it is leaning against the wrong wall.

Ask ask ask...

Jeff Livingston
 
Anger shown by the shooter displays, to me, his desire to improve and become a better player. He has higher expectations this his game can produce.

This is me about four years ago.

I have since learned this type of behavior only brings my game down.

Good instructors coaches and teachers know that one size does not fit all.

I've seen once too many times unsolicited advice at the wrong time, being in a league where you have a fair amount of new shooters being coached by some who have years, if not decades of experience. In any form, can make a player explosive; you have to understand that people when playing are also competing against themselves, the table, and you. During this time you may feel compelled to offer some encouragement, advice, ideas, etc. After all, you are trying to help him bring his game level up. He may not see things the same way while in game mode. In fact, he may read this as "sharking" his game, and will bring down his confidence and play.

You have to try a few times different things to find out what works best for him. Taking him aside and showing him a few things before or after a match can be effective.
Some people respond to all positive remarks like "Hey that was a good shot or try, but check this out..."

I think that taking mental note during in game and then working on them before or after the "match" may be most effective.

I've also been effective with offing some materials with books tape and DVDs to some of the people on my team who refuse to take any advice from me.

Consider this as well; since you "compete" with him, he may not wish any advice from you at all. Who knows.
 
Gregg said:
I think that taking mental note during in game and then working on them before or after the "match" may be most effective..
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I definitely agree. This recently happened to me just last Saturday, when an aquaintance was very determined to beat me. I watched his practice sessions before and after my match with him. Explained to him in another encounter and what things he would like to improve on, and provided some coaching that might make things simpler for him to understand.
When i get to see him Friday Evening, i'll see if anything helped him at all. :D
 
Gregg said:
Consider this as well; since you "compete" with him, he may not wish any advice from you at all. Who knows.
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Very wise advice.

Be especially alert to "advice" being given by someone who you expect to compete/match up with. Many times the "advice" being given by those is bad advice, intended to throw your game off. I've been on the receiving end of that not infrequently. When it happens, I usually don't react against it, unless the person is especially pushy, as some of them are. When the advice being offered is bad advice, and it's coming from a much better player, I'll usually be thankful, and say something about trying it out later, and then forget it. It could be that the fellow will come back later and, under the guise of trying to be helpful, etc., tell you again what he said earlier. At that moment, something like "I tried it out and it didn't work for me, thanks anyway," and you should be able to keep the peace.

There's one fellow who is quite obnoxious, and quite a good player, too, whose game consists in sharking when he's down. The last time it happened to me was in a nine-ball race to 7, and I was winning 5-1. I had a 45-50 degree cut shot on the 8 that needed to be shot with inside english to come one rail and back out for the 9. Not especially a tough shot, although on that table with double-shimmed pockets, it's an easily missable shot. I was taking my time, and a little while after getting down on the shot, I stood back up, squinted and went back down, and the jerk simply threw up his hands in despair and said something like, "Just cut the ball in!" BLATANT sharking. I shot and the 8 bobbled and didn't drop. I lost that game, and ended up losing the match. This fellow is a much better player than I am, but I had him on the ropes. His sharking was his undoing later on, however.

The next day we were to play some more 9 ball, but I insisted on playing on a different table, with new IPT type cloth and tight pockets. No way, says he. The pockets are too loose. Baloney. Then he wanted to play for $1 a game. I knew he was hustling me. He could have won the set the previous day probably 7-0. I told him I'd be happy to play him, but not for money, unless he wanted to give me major weight, and in any case, we'd have to agree to play in silence, because I knew how he'd start sharking if I were to get ahead. He said he didn't do that, sharking that is. Well he does, and I mentioned where and when he engages in it. He flat out lied to me. Surprise, surprise.

His "advice" on prior occasions was bad advice, intended to throw me off.

BTW, we haven't played since.

* * *

One way to suggest something to someone without being pushy is to ask them if they know anything about "X", say backhand english. Many people have never heard of it. If they don't want to know, it'll be obvious. If they want to know, just show a little bit of it and see how they react. If they're open, keep going; if not, back off. That way nobody will get offended.

* * *

Another way is to say something, "I just learned something new... wow..."

If they ask what it is, sharing is easy. If no comment comes out, leave 'em alone.


Flex
 
Billy_Bob said:
And the opposite is true. Many people will play *worse* if they are losing every game, are making bad shots, and someone tells them why they are missing shots or how they can improve. Tends to be a downward spiral!

So my question: How can you tell a beginning pool player (who has a *lot* to learn) all the things they can improve on while at the same time keeping their confidence up? Seems there is an endless list of things to learn.

Suggestions? (Does not matter to me if I win or lose...)
Click to expand...
Oftentimes unsolicited advice (on any subject) is unappreciated.

It might be better to ask in advance, "can I make some suggestions on how you can improve your game?" and see if the person is receptive to that approach.
 
Billy_Bob...<<So how do you tell someone this endless list of things >>

One at a time...until they OWN that one particular thing...then on to the next few...then return to square one...and so on.

It is a PROCESS...the hurrying of which will cause stone walls to be hit repeatedly.

Regards,
Jim
 
Gregg said:
...You have to try a few times different things to find out what works best for him. Taking him aside and showing him a few things before or after a match can be effective...
Click to expand...

Actually my friend and I have decided to do this. We have "practice times/games/drills" where I point out the best options or will stop everything and have him re-shoot a shot he missed / discuss what happened, etc.

Then we have just play games where we just play and I give no advice. (I pointed out to him that my giving advice while he is playing can be disruptive to his game and some people do this intentionally to shark. Also it makes my playing more difficult and distracts me if I have to tell him what I am doing for each shot and why.) I am continuing to be very tough on him [as advised] and although he gets mad when I continually win, this is getting him to be quite careful with his shots. He realizes that he could lose if he misses just one shot.

Then I am trying to get him to shoot in his remaining balls after I win so he will get the shot practice time in. He has not wanted to do this, but I have told him that it does not help him any to watch me run the table, rack the balls, and watch me run the table again. I tell him he needs to shoot in his balls to improve - that other players will not let him do this. He is starting to realize that this is a good thing to do and is now shooting in his remaining balls after each game.

He is improving at a steady pace and he sees this. So I think that will help to keep his confidence level up. Every night he makes one or two excellent shots he has not been able to do before. Last night he was able to leave the cue ball in a perfect spot for his next shot twice in a row. And he was screaming and jumping up and down with happiness because of a couple of difficult shots he made. (I'm having fun watching him improve!)
 
I think that one of the first things you have to do is to firmly establish whether your relationship will be that of competitors or of instructor-student. If, for example, your relationship is to be of instructor-student you certainly can't gamble with him for all the obvious reasons. I would strongly suggest that you work with the student on the physical and knowledge-related fundamentals of the game and give them drills that they can work on between instructional sessions. If, for whatever reason, the role of competitors, however unequal, is that which you will adopt, then you shouldn't ease up on him (I don't believe in that in any case), but you should, for the most part, teach by example and wait until after the session to offer advice. Ideally, in such a situation, you should wait to offer advice until asked for it.
 
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