Selfish negative destructive "team" captains

Billy_Bob

Billy_Bob

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There are those who create, build, share with others, want to see others succeed, and have a positive outlook on life.

Then there are those who attempt to tear down what others have built, destroy, mislead, want to see others fail, and have a negative outlook on life.

While most team players want what is best for the team - want the team to win, etc., I know one "team" captain who is quite the opposite.

This guy is selfish beyond selfish. He is only interested in himself and how well he looks compared with other players - including those on his own team. This is what I have noticed this guy doing...

When practicing with another team player and that player is about to win against him, he will stop the other player from shooting and intentionally give him/her advice which will cause the player to lose! (So he can win.) Example he will tell them to shoot a shot with the opposite english they should be using which then just so happens to break out one of his balls.

As if that is not bad enough, he will also do this during tournament matches! If there is a player from another team who has won against this guy in the past, he can't stand for anyone else on his team to win a match against this person. (No one else on his team can be a better player than him!) So if the player looks like he/she is about to win, he will call a time-out and intentionally give his player advice which will cause them to lose. Then he smiles and looks delighted when the player on *his* team loses!

Also he will shark and intimidate the players on other teams during matches. He will call fouls when it is a good hit, etc.

So instead of trying to improve his own playing, learning, etc. He concentrates all his energy on getting other players to play poorly. Including those on his own team!

Anyone else run across anyone like this? (I can understand sharking and trying to get other opponents to play worse, but doing this to your own team members? Sick puppy?)
 
Screw Him!!!!

That's what Purdman says!!!!
The captain on our team keeps telling me how tough my oponant is. Says things like "You have your hands full with this guy". I don't need that crap. The captain couldn't beat me on his best dam day. That ain't no bull. I am gonna tell him next time he does it. I am gonna challange him to a race to 15 and show him just where he stands. He is begining to p!ss me off a tad.
Purdman:mad:
 
Billy_Bob said:
There are those who create, build, share with others, want to see others succeed, and have a positive outlook on life.

Then there are those who attempt to tear down what others have built, destroy, mislead, want to see others fail, and have a negative outlook on life.

While most team players want what is best for the team - want the team to win, etc., I know one "team" captain who is quite the opposite.

This guy is selfish beyond selfish. He is only interested in himself and how well he looks compared with other players - including those on his own team. This is what I have noticed this guy doing...

When practicing with another team player and that player is about to win against him, he will stop the other player from shooting and intentionally give him/her advice which will cause the player to lose! (So he can win.) Example he will tell them to shoot a shot with the opposite english they should be using which then just so happens to break out one of his balls.

As if that is not bad enough, he will also do this during tournament matches! If there is a player from another team who has won against this guy in the past, he can't stand for anyone else on his team to win a match against this person. (No one else on his team can be a better player than him!) So if the player looks like he/she is about to win, he will call a time-out and intentionally give his player advice which will cause them to lose. Then he smiles and looks delighted when the player on *his* team loses!

Also he will shark and intimidate the players on other teams during matches. He will call fouls when it is a good hit, etc.

So instead of trying to improve his own playing, learning, etc. He concentrates all his energy on getting other players to play poorly. Including those on his own team!

Anyone else run across anyone like this? (I can understand sharking and trying to get other opponents to play worse, but doing this to your own team members? Sick puppy?)
Click to expand...

Some players are driven by the win at all costs motivation as thier single most reason for playing pool. This guy goes to the extremes to have "winning" bear fruit everytime. I would also guess that this same player wouldn't play on a consistant basis players who are better than him.

Though this motivation tecnique works for him right now it is definantly not entirely healthy for his game. The reason; the way he plays he's a one trick pony. If an opponent takes away that motivation, they take away his reason for playing the game. Thus he will simply be going thru the motions.

This is purely conjucture on my part, but by the sound of it it's a big part of his game. Soon a few few Purdman's of the world are gonna snap it off in him and this captain will wonder why he's in a extended slump!

P.S. I have seen this type before and it takes years for them to learn the errors of thier ways. It's like the negitive karma they spew comes right back to hit them in the face. If he's a relitively good guy let him know and save him the grief. If he's not be a Purdman and bust him!!!
 
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renard said:
Some players are driven by the win at all costs motivation as thier single most reason for playing pool. This guy goes to the extremes to have "winning" bear fruit everytime. I would also guess that this same player wouldn't play on a consistant basis players who are better than him.

Though this motivation tecnique works for him right now it is definantly not entirely healthy for his game. The reason; the way he plays he's a one trick pony. If an opponent takes away that motivation, they take away his reason for playing the game. Thus he will simply be going thru the motions.

This is purely conjucture on my part, but by the sound of it it's a big part of his game. Soon a few few Purdman's of the world are gonna snap it off in him and this captain will wonder why he's in a extended slump!

P.S. I have seen this type before and it takes years for them to learn the errors of thier ways. It's like the negitive karma they spew comes right back to hit them in the face. If he's a relitively good guy let him know and save him the grief. If he's not be a Purdman and bust him!!!
Click to expand...

renard, I don't wish to bust him, I just want to show him how bad he really plays. Ganbling on pool takes the pleasure and joy out of my PLAY time. PLAY is something you do just for the enjoyment of it. Like walking down the beach or cooking a wonderful meal for your friends. I see a lot ofball bangers that can't really play a lick.
Purdman:cool:
 
Purdman said:
renard, I don't wish to bust him, I just want to show him how bad he really plays. Ganbling on pool takes the pleasure and joy out of my PLAY time. PLAY is something you do just for the enjoyment of it. Like walking down the beach or cooking a wonderful meal for your friends. I see a lot ofball bangers that can't really play a lick.
Purdman:cool:
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I got out of your post. Though my reply might not be viewed that way (sorry.) The point I was making is that it takes someone to show him just how bad he really plays to change his sharking/selfish/intimidating persona.

I agree with what you say about play is something you do for the enjoyment of it. If this captain viewed the game more in this aspect, he would get more mileage out of the enjoyment of the game for motivation than the road he currently follows. The problem is it takes quite a few different players knocking the captain down a few pegs for him to see the error of his ways...
 
The captain position often attracts the egotistical power hungry authoritarian type character. I've played under a couple who fit this stereotype.

Captaining a team is a tough job so it's often easier to let someone else handle it so you can just focus on the pool. Hopefully you can find a good team. Improve your game and I expect you'll have more options.
 
People are free to choose what teams they will or will not play on. In the APA, team members can vote out the captain if the all agree. If you don't like the guy, don't play on his team.
This is not a life or death situation...it's a game! If it isn't fun, why do it?
Steve
 
One of the things that attracted me to pool in the first place is its individual nature. I don't like feeling that I let someone else down if I lose, and I really don't like being told what to do by a captain.

Team events are fun on occasion, but I've had no qualms about walking away from them if I don't like the attitude of the other teammates or the captain.
 
As a team captain myself, I have tried not to be a "egotistical power hungry authoritarian type":) .

I have seen this in other captains I have played against, and in 1 match I remember, opposition team members had to be separated before blows were landed:mad: .

One aspect mentioned in the original message is different where I am though. Captains are not allowed to coach during a match, only before or after it, thus enabling a player to play their own game.

I've have also heard a captain tell some one before a match that if they lost the game, they could forget about playing next week:eek: !!

I find this deplorable, and feel my team has great "spirit". I'm also happy to say my team has risen from Div 7 to Div 3 in 3 years (6 sessions). We are social outside of pool, and have noticed this is a rarity amongst other teams.

So, if you see a captain acting like an arse, drop the hint to his players that there are many fish in the sea, and just as many teams to play on:)

Daniel:D
 
The worst team captains are those, IMO, who have never really excelled at any team based sports, or do not have any background for leading or any type of group.

But the fact is, when it comes to league play, you see these people all the time who are team captains. Don't forget that it's also painful to play these teams, not just be a part of them!

Some team captains don't seem to have a lot of say in their family life, work life, etc, so they seem to relish in taking control of a pool team.

Anyway, just some of my thoughts or observations. I am also a team captain on an APA team, and like it was said, sometimes you learn from experience what not to do by observing other team captains and their actions. Or, listening to their shooters!
 
These seem to hit the nail on the head...

*egotistical power hungry authoritarian type.
*don't seem to have a lot of say in their family life, work life, etc.

This makes sense to me, although I have never understood these people. What motivates them, etc.

Having been a manager before... I don't suppose that I should wreck their fun and point out that power is "given" or "not given" by the "indians" and having a title of "chief" means little or nothing in itself. Or how they say cats "own you" (if they so choose), you don't own them!

I guess you could say power is like a battery. It will die if you use it all at once, retain it's power if you don't use it when you could, and you will be given an additional battery as a gift if you use the battery to shine a light to help another find a key in the dark.
 
Captains

Some team captains I've seen may not have bad intentions but still give bad advice. I've seen a couple that were the strongest shooters on the team and would go to coach a player that isn't as good and tell the player to shoot a shot that he or she would never make in a million years (the captain could make but not the player being coached). That doesn't make any sense to me either. I think you should coach to the persons ability not have them try some crazy shot in the middle of league that they are going to miss badly, lose the game, and feel stupid after shooting.
 
Do's and don'ts

I started a new APA team (mostly never before league players) on the promise that whatever the current state of their game, they will get better. The main reasons I have heard from individual players that they no longer play in our league is because of something a former team captain said or did. There is no excuse for anyone who is, or wants to be a team captain, to be anything other than unconditionally supportive of their teamates. I have a few simple do's and don'ts that I go by.

Do not try to psych a player into playing better by telling him or her how important the match is or how good their opponent is. This can backfire and make a person more nervous than they already are.

Do have fun! Having fun is contagious. If your not having fun, apologize, let your teamates know it is temporary and that it has nothing to do with them or the match.

Do set the example of courtesy and good sportsmanship.

Do not under any circumstances, discuss handicap strategy with any of the players. This can give a mixed signal to an enthusiastic and improving player that may discourage them from continuing their improvement. (this mainly applies to APA teams)

Do be available to play with any player on the team at other times and locations. Invite especially the struggling players out.

Do not negatively criticize any player either in front of or behind the back of another player.

Do not worry so much about your teamates play that it affects your own. Again, set the example.

When being asked for advice in a high pressure situation, speak in the affirmative, meaning, use phrases like hit it soft, rather than "don't" hit it too hard. In high pressure situations, folks tend to involuntarily forget about the "don't" part and do exactly what was said after.

When in doubt, bite your lip. Less is more.


I also hope anyone who is reading this who is not a team captain also realizes how difficult it can be at times. Many of these things can also apply to team players as well.

I guess I went a little off topic, but I hope I didn't get too far off to lose anyone's interest who may be having trouble with their team.
 
Funny thread

So much drama goes with league or team play its funny to hear some of these comments because it is the same in every city. Sometimes the conversations I hear on this board are identical word for word with something that happened here in St.Louis. :D

There are always those that take it TOO seriously, taking the fun out of it for many people. I agree with Da Poet who says..when in doubt..bite your lip. Great words to live by in life not just in pool league. Words spoken in heat or anger have a way of biting you back later on. :)
 
League play .....

Well, I think there are 2 sides to each story, and 80% of my league play, I have been the captain, and 95% of the time, I have been the 'official' coach, and usually the 'anchor' person on the team. I think of these positons as being a position of 'support' for the team. I have shared coaching responsibilities when someone on the team found me to be 'unnerving' a little, usually the lowest handicapped male on the team.

I try to:

1) Keep advice to 30 words or less if I can.
2) Give 2-3 best options for situation, and which one I would choose, and
why if they want to know.
3) Give them the possible future problems with a shot if they want one
that is not 'reasonable', in my opinion.
4) Always tell them they have to decide which shot is best FOR THEM to
shoot.
5) Always try to have a 'positive' attitude.

The Devil's advocate side is:
1) Players that don't seem to take advice, not just on timeouts, but why you should do something a particular way to have good results. Like if they do not have good form breaking the balls, and the type of break they try. This extends over into team players that do better in life than on the Pool table, seem intelligent about their life and profession, but can not grasp logic of playing Pool. Why should I play a safe? Some of them are resentful and do not like to admit that they need help, even if they think they don't.
2) Players that do not correct their mistakes in a game, and constantly make the same mistake over and over and over and over again, and then wonder why they can not win.
3) Players that can not recognize the difference between making balls and how to win the game?
4) Strictly league players that think they are as good as you are, even though you have more experience, played for lots of money, and have more knowledge about how to handle table layouts to win in the end.
(Sometimes this comes to light when the team goes to Nationals or a playoff tournament when the pressure is on).
5) The smart players are the ones, no matter what the level of play, that recognize they need a helping hand from some type of mentor, and embrace it to help their game improve.
6) Your coaching method affects team interaction and relationships, and can alienate members if not done right, as well as affect the team's performance.
7) Some members just want to have fun ... period Others have fun thourgh the competition and doing well. Each team member needs to be aware of that, and relate which type they prefer.
8) Some team members can not suffer through 6 sessions getting 3rd-6th in league before 1 or 2 lameducks 'catch on', especially if they expect to get back out of league what they put into it, and many do.
9) No one should be allowed to play in an advanced league unless they
really qualify for it.
 
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