Shadiest Pool Hall

[stevelomako]

> I should have clarified this. I was not referring to the one in Livonia,MI,since I've never hit a ball there,and haven't been there since going to speed skating competitions as a kid when I still lived in Akron. The one I am referring to is in the 3600 block of Lamar Ave in Memphis. Tommy D.

Thanks and to get back on topic:

When I was living in L.A. and Santa Barbara in the late 70's there was a pool room in Pasadena on Colorado Blvd that was a real sweet hang-out, its nice when you're playing, the game's tough, you're ahead, NO ONE is speaking english and they're all talking and pointing at you.

 

[Zorro]

I only stepped foot in there one time in my life. I was a teenager, and a couple of girls and me got the nerve to go down those steps into a billiard parlor -- with no windows, as I recall.

Being a native Washingtonian, one can't help but remember that this Jack and Jill's in Arlington [Seven Corners actually] was owned by none other than Weenie Beanie, a legend in his own right. He used to have hot dog trolley cars in the Arlington area which sold an assortment of hot dog delights, and rumor has it that he made a bundle.

One-pocket was definitely in vogue. This action room was on every road player's map, late '60s/early '70s. Luther Lassiter, Cornbread Red, and even Willie Mosconi, they all stepped foot in there at one time or another.

I remember a pool room in Petersburg, Virginia, right on the main thoroughfare. We were "on the road" and happened to drive by and wanted to check it out. It was an old wooden structure with a front porch. There was a huge sign displayed on the window that said: "No Women Allowed." I couldn't believe it. This was in the mid '70s. If only I had had a camera!

JAM [Walked in, anyway, and nobody said a word! ]

"Beanie's" main room was at 2707 S. Wakefield Street in South Arlington. I ought to know; I lived there (under the stairs) for a time! The room you mentioned was his second place, which only lasted a couple of years, in the Willston Shopping Center at Seven Corners. Mosconi did do an exhibition there, but the real action "joint" was in South Arlington where I saw Wimpy, Eddie Taylor, Ed Kelly, Ronnie Allen, Ritchie Florence, Mike Carella, Boston Shorty, Mike Sigel, Steve Mizerak, Bugs Rucker, Bud Hypes, Handsome Danny Jones, Irving Crane, Jim Rempe, Buddy Hall, Joe Balsis, Earl Shriver, Allan Hopkins, Steve Cook, Jim Fusco, Petey Fusco, Billy Incardona, Joey Spaeth (The Cinncinati Kid), Cole Dixon, Tuscaloosa Squirrel, Baltimore Riggie, Bill Lawson, Wade Crane, Larry Liscotti---and many, many more---talk about an ACTION room!!! Wouldn't it be great if somebody could recreate what Weenie Beanie did in the 60's and 70's, but for the current day's players!? I'd be tempted to move wherever that room might be. Only this time I'd hope to have a house to live in.

 

[Zorro]

I'm not sure if I had been to The Sportsman in downtown Roanoke, but I did frequent a pool room in that town and met Roanoke Red, an action player of that era. I was en route back to D.C. after a road trip and stopped in. This place had the parking lot out front, and you had to walk up a small set of stairs to get in the joint. It was a sickly hospital green color inside, as I recall.

Gold star for who can remember Roanoke Red's real name because I can't.

JAM

I remember Roanoke Red from Westmont Recreation Center (which became Champions) in Arlington, Virginia back in the sixties. He even got a job down the street at the Toddle House flipping burgers and eggs. His name will come back to me eventually...gotta let it sorta bubble up nowadays. Is he still alive?

 

[Zorro]

That was a huge room that Weenie Beenie had, too. I remember 50 tables and each one named for a state. (Am I remembering that correctly? I came of age in the 70s so things get a little sketchy in there!)

There was another room on Glebe Road in Clarendon (now Ballston) that I used to frequent. Only about 12 tables and I want to say it was called the Cue and Chalk. Had a guy that ran the place who used to sing Big Band stuff out loud all the time, named Jack. And a day manager that used to play Kelly Pool and keep his pea in his ear hole! I remember he had ears big enough to hold a cue ball and I always wondered how he never lost the pea!

One night, when I was in high school, there were four of us playing there. We suddenly heard a commotion near the front of the room. Someone had done something to someone else and the offended party was standing over a guy out cold on the floor, brandishing his cue stick butt and screaming, "He was ****ing with me and I told him not to!" After looking around and seeing no one else threatening him, he calmly put his stick away and walked out the door. The manager came up, checked that the guy was breathing, called the rescue squad and police and went back to his game! We paid our time and left before the authorities came to clean up.

I can't imagine living in the house where I grew up, about a mile away, and allowing a 10 or 12 year old kid to ride his bike to either of these places nowadays. (Without a helmet, no less!) It was a much simpler time I guess.

Thanks for allowing some great memories to come back.

Brian,

The room with the tables named after states was the one at Seven Corners. But the larger room was the one in South Arlington--it had a snack bar, a snooker table, a ping pong area, pin balls, and a tournament area as well.

The other room, Cue and Chalk, was owned by Joe Gruber, on Glebe Road at Fairfax Drive. I remember it as a pretty sedate place, but anything can happen anywhere, especially when gambling is involved. Brings back memories to me, too.

 

[Zorro]

Poor Newport Junior used to have to stand outside of Bill & Billie's when the midnight hour hit because they wouldn't let minors in there after that time. His dad, BTW, attends Derby City Classic in Louisville every single year.

I saw Freddie Boggs play Weenie Beanie at the OLD Champions [pre-Richard Allen] on Glebe Road a game of one-pocket at a nickel a pop. The pool grapevine disseminated the news of this match-up, and the place was packed. Weenie Beanie pulled up after one game because Freddie Boggs was taking too long between shots.

Later that night, Geese matched up with Bobby Hawk, with Geese playing one-handed. Young Bobby Hawk was a little green back then and agreed to give Geese a huge spot, his two hands to Geese's one. It was over in no time, with Geese enjoying the thrill of victory.

Seattle Sam was working the counter at that time, which made it an action-friendly kind of place.

JAM

I wasn't "active" at the time you mentioned (having taken time off pool to actually work a job), but I see Freddie every year now out in Vegas, and I recently talked with Bobby on the phone. Both are still playing jam up!

 

[B.J.the bandit]

Pool Rooms

'RUSTY'S IN DALLAS!!!! we were the action spot of Tx. lol

 

[wahcheck]

san francisco

I remember Palace Billiards in SF back in the 60's....You walked up a long flight of stairs outside from the street and another flight once you got inside the door...the 1st thing you saw at the top of the stairs was about 6-8 pinball machines all in a row, side by side....(the gambling kind with the bingo-type cards) people playing the machines, smoking, and once I got to the top of the stairs and turned around it seemed like every shark in the place took notice and usually somebody walked up to you immediately, saying "wanna play some"? If you said, "not right now", he would go back to his seat somewhere, and shark #2 would approach you with the same question.. there were the kind of seats around the perimeter of the room (which was pretty large and spacious) that reminded me of the elevated type that you might sit on at a shoeshine stand...people were sitting on them sweating matches or sleeping...Phillippino Gene in action, playing somebody one pocket on the back table talking nasty and loud, sharking his opponent....the atmosphere and people in there kinda reminded you of what you might see at a big city bus station or Greyhound Depot...I started going up there when I was a truant, cutting school to play pool...the stereotypical misspent youth(?) lol.....I sure had fun though.....

 

[nfty9er]

"COCHRAN'S"

San Francisco in the 50's and to this day. (Now called Hollywood Billiards)

It was located on Market St. in the heart of downtown San Francisco. To the South of Market was skid row from 3rd to 9th st. with all the drunks, homeless, down and outs and mixed in with the longshoremen seamen who sailed in the merchant marine. On the north side was the Tenderloin, known as pimp row, drug alley and every rip off you could think of. The ironic part was the real exit was right across from the Golden Gate theatre where major movies and plays came and went along with the upper class patrons. They came in limos or cabs and they never parked and walked by Cochran's. Well most of them.
Cochran's had 2 entrances both of which required climbing a long set of stairs which led into a large supposedly at the time legant room with old time Brunswick tables of which they are still there. It was dark in the room but pretty lit by the cafe bar where you could order food from the oriental chef and bartender. There was constant action in this room either on the tables or the open snooker game or open golf game. Ronnie Allen and Richie Florence came up from L.A. all the time to hustle. Sometimes winning, other times not. S.F. had some pretty good players them themselves incliding Cochran Sr. and Jr. You could find anything you wanted there incliding drugs, sex, (man or woman,) stolen merchandise, dice games, poker, tossing coins and pinballs that paid off. It was constant action 24 hours a day.
The first day I walked in there my buddy, One Eye Hank Hurst got in a game with Bucktooth, stiff him and Bucktooth chased him around the room throwing balls at him. I laughed my ass off and from that day on it was a daily pilgramage. Not that I was into all that but I loved the action and the people who were sincere. This place was dangerous, you had to mind your p's and q's and be careful who you got into it with.
I really do not think there was a more seedier place anywhere. The previous poster mentioned Palalce Billiards. Although in the same area it was tame compared to Cochrans in its day. Place had 2 locations. First one was at 4th and Ellis behind the Woolthworth's until they lost their lease then they moved to Market St. They survived cause Cochrans was so bad they kept closing and reopening. Tony Annigonni was a parnter at one time. The place is still seedy. They tried to open under new owners a few months ago and the first thing is they got closed because of a killing outside and they were unlicensed. As of now I do now know if they reopened.
The place has since been remodeled though. In the old days all the windows were covered, now they are open and they built a large beautiful bar in the center that is 4 sided. The front door was blocked up the last time I was there so entering at night from the back is still scary. I knew of a lot of winners that got mugged leaving from the back entrance over the years. A lot of people had body guards it was so bad. Desperate people in that area did desperate things. In the old days you left from the rear cause the front led to Market St. and you would have to put up woth a the homosexuals lurking in all the doorways trying to pick up anybody walking by. It was a sad area and still is. There is no way this not the seediest in the Nation.

 

[OldHasBeen]

Jam - Don't tell that to me OR Jack C.

LOL. I always tell my daughter that: "You can't con a con!"

A "CON" is the easiest & BEST to Con! They ain't lookin for it!
I made many a buck looking for the "CONS" with the "Ca$H"!

TY & GL

 

[Zorro]

Speaking of shooting real good one handed and one pocket, does anyone remember a heavy set guy named 'Tucker' who used to run Weenie Beanies' Jack and Jill in Arlington.

When Tucker found out I was from Roanoke he used to laugh at what a 'fish' Red Terry (see, I have his last name but not his first) was. Everybody used to laugh at Red, until they played him in Roanoke. I had retired from pool at this time, but I have another newspaper article where Mike Ives was talking about Red kicking Tucker's ass in 9 ball. Poor Tucker, he made the trip all the way from Arlington to smoke Red and he got trampled by the 'Roanoke Trotter', another one of Red's nicknames because he is WITHOUT a doubt the fastest player who ever played the game. I wish I could have seen Tucker's face. Anyway, I am going to be in Roanoke all next week and I will find out more at the pool hall on Williamson Road.

JAM, there was a kid in Roanoke I used to beat when he was in puberty, but when he became around 19 he stomped everyone's ass in Roanoke. His name was Llyod Aldridge. Again, in one of Mike Ive's articles, he mentioned Lloyed being in an automobile accident. I have never heard of him since - have you? Again, I must find out next week.

Another question: do any other cities out there have a prolific sports writer who writes about local pool games in the newspaper? Ah, the good ole days!

That would be "Tucker Shepherd." He ran Palace Billiards on Route 1 south of Alexandria in the 60's. Then he was house man at Beanie's Jack and Jill in the late 60's and 70's, along with "Beefie" and Howard Barrett, among others. Tucker was last seen playing at Fast Eddie's in Springfield, VA where he disappeared from pooldom circa 1999. My guess is he's somewhere in or near Woodbridge and doesn't play anymore.

The last time I talked with him, in the late 90's, he told me about a Filopino he had played. He said I wouldn't have believed it! He said he [Tucker] never missed a shot, but this guy busted him in no time. Haha! Oh, yes, I would believe it! One of these days I'm sure Tucker will re-emerge in some poolroom somewhere.

 

[Nostroke]

A "CON" is the easiest & BEST to Con! They ain't lookin for it!
I made many a buck looking for the "CONS" with the "Ca$H"!

TY & GL

Why wouldnt they be looking for it?

 

[wonderlan]

the old 7/11 and Guys&Dolls on 50th & 7Ave

Does anybody remember Paddy's 711 (sp?) in Manhattan? I remember stopping in there one night around one a.m. and this fellow came up to be and asked if I would like to buy a diamond ring. I asked him to show it to me. He pointed to a gentleman standing several feet away and said, "See that guy? He's wearing it!"

You think the 7/11 was a shady pool hall, it could have been if you where a tourist and niave. I was going to all those rooms back in the late 60s after hours all night long till it was time to get thru the Lincoln Tunnel and make it Home Room in J P Stevens HS in Edison, NJ.. We had the great old Four Seasons in Metuchen, NJ and the great Hi Cue in Elizabeth, NJ when they were great rooms with great players and good action. I was 16&17,,, never had a problem in the 7/11 after 1am till 6am. You had Mcgiurs another good allnite action spot. Those poolrooms weren't really shady like some really shady rooms in the South.. Have you ever been to Steels in Newark, NJ back in the 60s? An All Black poolroom that you could get shived very easily.. I don't know I was a good player and action and I always got respect and never had any real serious problems in any poolroom.. If you were a real player not afraid to get up there and play you were treated as one of the guys and looked out for.. If you weren't really a player and was trying to sneak around looking to steal then oh yes,, you could have a whole lot of trouble all the time when going to these REAL poolrooms. I was a very thin small 118lb babyfaced kid looking younger than my young age of 16 and 17 and I never once had any real problems.. I was a real player and not afraid to step up. I walked around with my small little bankroll of cash in a rubber band and I flashed it for everyone to see.. I was there with cue case and usually with a partner or backer and I was always treated with respect and watched after by the locals no matter where i went. If you were a scum bag or just very niave and didn't really belong then you could have problems.. Thats the way I seen it and lived it. To this day and i'm 54 now. I run into older men who remember. Many have passed away. I lost my good buddy Johnny Irvolino this Feb who was at that time back then a regular at the 7/11. Every player across the country loved and respected Johnny. Johnny was 69.... We lost Jack Colavito another very famiilar great player from that area who just recently passed away at age 74... If you know the 7/11 then you know Blackie and Bob Worth and Sketter and Rebel and Augie Doggie and Teddy the Greek and his son Chris... I'm Mike Cernero aka many nick names etc thru the years who goes way back the the great 7/11... The 7/11 was a great poolroom,,, I loved those poolrooms and that atmosphere and I wish it was still like that today.. The players weren't afraid to get up there and match up and BET. Today you have a bunch of NITS and players who won't bet 25 bucks unless they have a total lock.. The 7/11 wasn't really a shady poolroom... The 7/11 was a REAL poolroom...

 

[Zorro]

A "CON" is the easiest & BEST to Con! They ain't lookin for it!
I made many a buck looking for the "CONS" with the "Ca$H"!

TY & GL

Earl Shriver used to tell me, "You can't con an honest man."

 

[Zorro]

You think the 7/11 was a shady pool hall, it could have been if you where a tourist and niave. I was going to all those ...

Thanks for those memories. I didn't frequent 7/11, but I know you are right...it was one of the premiere rooms in the country, and many a fine player matched up there.

One of the shadiest rooms I remember was Chief's place at 8th and H Streets NE, Wash, DC. I remember seeing Strawberry play a North Carolina champion by the name of Bill Lawson. Bill was playing under the influence (not uncommon for him) and dropped a dollar on the floor when he was fumbling with his bankroll to pay off Strawberry. At least fifteen or twenty spectators jumped into what looked almost like an NFL pileup and one guy came up with the dollar and ran out the door and down the street. This happened around 1963 as I remember. Also, in the newspaper the next day I read that someone was killed that same night on the street corner at 8th and H. That was enough for me. I never went to that room again.

Later, Chief owned and ran Guys and Dolls in Silver Hill, Maryland, a top action spot in the DC area.

 

[Zorro]

I'm not sure if I had been to The Sportsman in downtown Roanoke, but I did frequent a pool room in that town and met Roanoke Red, an action player of that era. I was en route back to D.C. after a road trip and stopped in. This place had the parking lot out front, and you had to walk up a small set of stairs to get in the joint. It was a sickly hospital green color inside, as I recall.

Gold star for who can remember Roanoke Red's real name because I can't.

JAM

Whitewolf has it right--Roanoke Red's last name was Terry. I remember seeing his driver's license back in 1963, but now I'll be up all night trying to remember his first name!!

 

[Ronoh]

I remember it well, 1998

What's the shadiest pool hall you've ever been to and why? Sound off.

Location: somewhere in East LA.

I was fixing a bank for Y2k.

When the bank closed, I started to tear out the gutts of the old system. Some parts didn't go well, but I persevered. The next morning, I thought about what all I had to do, and how long I had to get it done in. Monday morning, people will want access to their hard earned money to pay for what they wanted.

During the "rip out/install" part, I found a major problem.

I needed time to think.

Pool was my only outlet at the time.

I walked around the block, making the block bigger and bigger each time I walked. I found a billiards hall. The outside of the place was painted in white, but with the fog of L.A. and the smokers, the outside paint was a faint yelllow. (I'm remembering it like it was yesterday)

The place didn't open till 4 PM. I'm so focused on the network problem that I have no clue where I am, nor my suroundings. But, it was quiet at 2PM. Time for me to think.

3:30 PM rolls around...

Many folks have walked passed me, male, female, young, and old, from around 2PM till 3:30PM. A mexican man stumbled passed me, and says "Gringo! You must be lost". He laughed hard after he said that.

My only response was "Nope, I know this place opens soon. I use pool to ease my mind".

When the place opened, barred doors and all, I asked the owner for the best table and promised to pay $20 an hour. Which I did.

I figured out the problem of what the network was looking for to complete the loop, and figured out why my draws where so ineffective.

I got a lot of strange strares that day, but that was the shadiest poolhalll I was ever in. OH, forgot to mention, the first three racks were 8 ball, played by myself, ran low ball, ran high ball, then 8. Each time, ran out. Was $2.00 per hour. Got the most of my money for practice.

You will zone, if you allow it.

 

[Ronoh]

a night remembered

After I posted the previous post, I went to bed, only to be awaken of a vivid memory.

I remember a night, in which I went to Coraopolis (PA). I went to a bar called "Chez". I'm the only "white" guy in the bar. The person playing at the pool table wore a "glove".

I began to open my case and put together my cue. I got greated with "Craker, you DO NOT want to play him" from one of the bar flies.

I shruged it off.

::: 1.5 hours later :::

I'm up over $400. I decide to quit. I offer a beer to the opponent. We partake.

After ingesting the beer, I head out to my truck (a 1994 GMC full size truck, bench seat, no amenities, only got AM on my AM/FM radio) and drive down the road for about .6 (6/10th) of a mile. I realize I'm not myself. I pull over in an area designated for "pull overs" only. I got slipped a mickey! I pulled over and started my slumber.

I woke up at 6:53 AM. I'm missing all the cash I thought I had earned. I'm still in my truck.

I learned a lesson that night.

Complacency can kill you! Always think!

 

[Zorro]

Why wouldnt they be looking for it?

If I might add something here--Cons are looking for it, however, due to the nature of their occupation, they have a liberal amount of larceny themselves--that selfsame trait they wish to exploit in their marks. Anyone with larceny in their hearts can be conned.