Shaft Diameter Differences

[Keystone87]

Was wondering how a 12.75mm shaft will perform as opposed to a 13.2mm? ...Thinking of ordering a predator shaft in the future and I saw the possibility of getting a fat 314. I've played with a Joss that had a thicker shaft on it before and liked the way it felt...I have long skinny fingers and hands. So any opinions on the pros and cons of this would be appreciated, thank you guys.

 

[iusedtoberich]

It really is all personal preference. Any shaft can perform any task, save perhaps jump shots. The top pros play with any combination of diameter, tip, and taper imaginable, and they can all make the same shots.

If you have the chance, try to find the shaft locally, and see how it feels in your fingers.

BTW, I also have long skinny fingers... I'm 6-3 tall and very skinny. For me, I play with a 12.75mm 314, and I like how it feels.

My personal preference also heavily favors low deflection/squirt shafts. But again, that's just a preference, and you will find many that feel the opposite.

Good luck.

 

[ENGLISH!]

For what it's worth, I learned to play with a 13mm conical European taper house cue that I hade made into a sneaky pete. I then went to a 13mm pro taper cue. I am now playing with 2 - 12.75mm LD shafts w/ pro taper & I am in the market for a 11.75mm shaft with a conical European taper.

Al that being said, I think it depends what style do you play. Do you use side spin much if at all, etc.

I personally prefer the conical European taper. Firstly I never liked a whippy feeling shaft as The Muecci's used to be. Conical/European tapers have a firmer feel than the pro tapers. Secondly, I do not use a very tight closed bridge as I do not like the rubbing drag on the fleshy parts of the fingers. Hence the conical/ European taper. It is looser in the back & forth of the stroke but then tightens up near contact & through the CB.

I have tried one with a 11.75mm tip & have found that I like the smaller tip as I can even fine tune my tip position even better than with the 12.75 tips.

I have what is called a medium cadet golf glove sized hand. Cadet means larger palm to finger ratio.

I hope this gives you 'food for thought' & ultimately helps you in your decision.

Best Wishes & Regards,

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Was wondering how a 12.75mm shaft will perform as opposed to a 13.2mm? ...Thinking of ordering a predator shaft in the future and I saw the possibility of getting a fat 314. I've played with a Joss that had a thicker shaft on it before and liked the way it felt...I have long skinny fingers and hands. So any opinions on the pros and cons of this would be appreciated, thank you guys.

The only objective performance difference will be that a smaller diameter shaft might squirt a little less. I think everything other than that (maybe even that) will be personal preference.

One personal preference that you might not think of is that even a half millimeter smaller is noticable to your eye - you might feel like you can see better exactly where you're hitting the cue ball, which is a good thing even if it's just an impression (because it will prompt you to pay closer attention).

pj
chgo

 

[Keystone87]

Much appreciated info

thank you guys for all the help and opinions it is much appreciated. This was my first thread on AZ and it was a nice welcome indeed to see multiple replies.

 

[naji]

Was wondering how a 12.75mm shaft will perform as opposed to a 13.2mm? ...Thinking of ordering a predator shaft in the future and I saw the possibility of getting a fat 314. I've played with a Joss that had a thicker shaft on it before and liked the way it felt...I have long skinny fingers and hands. So any opinions on the pros and cons of this would be appreciated, thank you guys.

My advice start with 13 or higher DIA shafts until you master your stroke, otherwise, you are going to have hard time adjusting to small tip. Basically straight or near straight shots. If you have no issue with that then i'd say 12 mm or smaller since their deflection (squirt) is not noticeable for most shots, and seem that swerve cancels squirt at smaller dia. For extreme english pay attention to how shaft is parallel to line of CB to OB if you notice you are pivoted adjust to minimize squirt, and cue elevation so you adjust for swerve if needed.
Best of luck.

 

[Zippo]

Was wondering how a 12.75mm shaft will perform as opposed to a 13.2mm? ...Thinking of ordering a predator shaft in the future and I saw the possibility of getting a fat 314. I've played with a Joss that had a thicker shaft on it before and liked the way it felt...I have long skinny fingers and hands. So any opinions on the pros and cons of this would be appreciated, thank you guys.

In my experience is easier to pocket balls with a larger diameter tip.
Recently I made an experiment with a couple of 314s shafts. Same diameter at the ferrule,same thread, same weight and same tip brand. The only difference was the tip diameter. (I used a willards machine and didn't know that it will tapper the tip) The first tip was 12mm and the second was 12.5mm. It was way easier to play with the 12.5mm one. The next day I replaced the 12mm with a 12.75mm tip. It was noticeable easier to pocket balls with the 12.75 compared to the 12.50

 

[Patrick Johnson]

In my experience is easier to pocket balls with a larger diameter tip.
Recently I made an experiment with a couple of 314s shafts. Same diameter at the ferrule,same thread, same weight and same tip brand. The only difference was the tip diameter. (I used a willards machine and didn't know that it will tapper the tip) The first tip was 12mm and the second was 12.5mm. It was way easier to play with the 12.5mm one. The next day I replaced the 12mm with a 12.75mm tip. It was noticeable easier to pocket balls with the 12.75 compared to the 12.50

There's no objective reason this should be true - must be a personal thing.

pj
chgo

 

[AlexandruM]

12.75 mm is OK for average player.

 

[Pidge]

12.75 mm is OK for average player.

So no player above or below the "average" threshold uses a 12.75mm tip?

it seems the main reasons to go for a smaller tip diameter are because the end mass is reduced which aids the reduction of squirt. It reduces the amount of CB blocked by the tip. Taper preference; 11.5mm tip will usually come with a conical taper and 13mm usually with a pro taper.

A 13mm tip has the same size contact area as a 11mm tip given that both tips have the same curvature and hardness. A smaller tip diameter will not make you put unintentional english on the CB (you can thank your stroke for that!). If you hit 2mm to the right of where you intended a 13mm and 11.5mm will still impart the same amount of spin.

Back to the original question though; the 12.75 and 13.2mm 314 shafts should both have the same taper (I may be wrong) and the only difference in the two would be the end mass. The FAT shaft should produce slightly more squirt in theory and I don't know you level of play but squirt can always be compensated for. If you have the chance to go to a billiards store and try both shafts out before you buy that's the only way you're going to know what you prefer.

Regards

 

[naji]

There's no objective reason this should be true - must be a personal thing.

pj
chgo

There is Pat, those that do not bring tip at pause all the way to almost touch CB are into big surprise to where the tip contact point is when they fire, or when elevated near a rail shot. So unless a shooter has flawless stroke he or she will have issue with small tip, but eventually will get adjusted to it.
My 2 cents.

 

[Pidge]

There is Pat, those that do not bring tip at pause all the way to almost touch CB are into big surprise to where the tip contact point is when they fire, or when elevated near a rail shot. So unless a shooter has flawless stroke he or she will have issue with small tip, but eventually will get adjusted to it.
My 2 cents.

I'm going to have to disagree with you. The size in tip diameter makes no difference in the ability to make a ball. It doesn't take a PhD to line the tip up to where you want to contact the CB regardless of the size of the tip. And if you are not hitting the CB where intended it has nothing to do with tip size, purely a flaw in you stroke.

 

[naji]

So no player above or below the "average" threshold uses a 12.75mm tip?

it seems the main reasons to go for a smaller tip diameter are because the end mass is reduced which aids the reduction of squirt. It reduces the amount of CB blocked by the tip. Taper preference; 11.5mm tip will usually come with a conical taper and 13mm usually with a pro taper.

A 13mm tip has the same size contact area as a 11mm tip given that both tips have the same curvature and hardness. A smaller tip diameter will not make you put unintentional english on the CB (you can thank your stroke for that!). If you hit 2mm to the right of where you intended a 13mm and 11.5mm will still impart the same amount of spin.

Back to the original question though; the 12.75 and 13.2mm 314 shafts should both have the same taper (I may be wrong) and the only difference in the two would be the end mass. The FAT shaft should produce slightly more squirt in theory and I don't know you level of play but squirt can always be compensated for. If you have the chance to go to a billiards store and try both shafts out before you buy that's the only way you're going to know what you prefer.

Regards

The only time you have issue with any tip really is when your standard way of playing you keep tip 2 or 3" or more from CB during pause, when you fire the shot, it is almost guaranteed your tip contact point is a little off than intended. With smaller tip it is amplified, with larger tip you will be closer to the target. Remember tip flattens out during tip contact. But eventually you will learn to adjust.

 

[naji]

I'm going to have to disagree with you. The size in tip diameter makes no difference in the ability to make a ball. It doesn't take a PhD to line the tip up to where you want to contact the CB regardless of the size of the tip. And if you are not hitting the CB where intended it has nothing to do with tip size, purely a flaw in you stroke.

You are saying the same thing as i am saying, read my post to the end.

 

[12squared]

Was wondering how a 12.75mm shaft will perform as opposed to a 13.2mm? ...Thinking of ordering a predator shaft in the future and I saw the possibility of getting a fat 314. I've played with a Joss that had a thicker shaft on it before and liked the way it felt...I have long skinny fingers and hands. So any opinions on the pros and cons of this would be appreciated, thank you guys.

Shaft no longer available.

Dave

 

[EasyEJL]

effectively from what I've noticed myself in shooting with a friends 10.5mm up to a 13mm and a few inbetween, the larger the tip the more forgiving a cue is of your errors, the smaller the less forgiving. Also, from what I've seen

A 13mm tip has the same size contact area as a 11mm tip given that both tips have the same curvature

may be true technically but most smaller cue tips tend to get shaped to a dime curve vs nickel curve, so they generally aren't the same.

 

[Pidge]

What you are saying is, the smaller tip misses the intended contact point by more because it is smaller. Right?

For example; your stroke dictates that you will always move the tip 3mm to the right than where you wanted to contact the CB. You will be judging your contact by the centre of the tip, so 3mm to the right from centre is where both the centre of a 13mm and a 11mm tip will contact.

The idea of the tip flattening at contact is true, but regardless of tip diameter the amount of "flattening" is determined by the hardness and curvature of the tip. A 13mm and 11mm with exactly the same curvature and hardness will compress and "flatten" exactly the same and thus the contact area between the tip and CB will be the same size for both sizes.

Going back to what PJ originally said - there is no objective reason why a larger tip diameter makes it easier to make balls, it must be a personal preference.

I mean I may be wrong, I'm tired. But I have 99.9% confidence in what I've said throughout this post.

 

[Jeff M]

My GF recently bought me a Lucasi Hybrid with a 11.75mm. I only had played with a 12.75mm before that. I have to say, I love the difference in cueball control it gives me. Less effort to do just as much and more.

 

[Zippo]

Well, some months ago I used to practice everyday. The first drill I always did was a straight in shot with the OB in the middle of the table and the cue ball in a corner trying to pocket the ball in the oposite corner (just like the first shot of Bert Kinister's "60 minutes workout") With the Z2 my average success rate was 16 out of 20 tries. Only a couple of times I made 20/20. With the 314 my average success rate was 19 with a lot of 20s. Stroke problem?... sure, but the cold plain numbers tell me that it's easier to pocket balls with the 314 shaft compared to the Z2.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

...when...contact point is a little off than intended. With smaller tip it is amplified, with larger tip you will be closer to the target.

There's no difference. Except with extreme english you're using the same part of the tip.

Remember tip flattens out during tip contact. But eventually you will learn to adjust.

No difference (based on tip size) in how much the tip flattens either.

pj
chgo