Shaft diameter question

[Mike in MN]

I was wondering if a great pool cue mind would give me the rundown on cue shaft diameter. What is the difference in play between a shaft with a diameter of 11.75 mm and a shaft with a 12.75 mm diameter? Is there a pros and cons list I should know about? Is a smaller/larger diameter better in some aspects and lacking in others? Etc. etc. etc. I am a roast, baste me.

 

[Handsumm]

Larger diameter for better accuracy. Smaller diameter for more action on the cue ball and for some it just seems to feel better, especially for closed and/or crossover bridges.

Try turning down your shaft to say 12.25 and see how you like it. If it feels ok or you think you might even go smaller, go for it. I feel that there is definitely a sweet spot for different people. You might find it harder to shoot the long straight shots the smaller diameter you get. LIke I said, accuracy kinda goes away as the shaft gets thinner. At least for me it did.

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

It's a matter of compensation. if you're having a problem with accuracy, it's better to have a large diameter shaft. with regards to more CB movement, have a thinner shaft. it all depends on what works best for you. I didn't say that a lot of CB movement can't be accomplished by using a thick diameter shaft or less accuracy using a thin diameter shaft. the most important component is you, on how you can adapt to a particular shaft.

the standard diameter is usually 12.75. that would work just fine for any player. unless you wanted a 14, that means you need to exert more effort putting a lot on the CB or a 12, that you must be dead accurate for long shots !

 

[Fatboy]

I have went through phases over the years from 12.6 up to 13.2, right now i'm happy at 13, it makes a huge difference if you have soft shaft wood, if its a bit stiffer then not as much, Enrnesto Domingez plays with a Tad with very skinny shafts and is a champion. some guys I cant think of anyone in peticular play with 13mm shafts and are champions, point is its a matter of personal taste, and then add in the taper and it gets real complicated, there was a great post in the last couple days about this, taper and length are part of the equation you have to consdider all factors not just diameter, good shaft wood, is the most important thing,

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=62683&page=2

it was posted by mailman, he says it best, taper is more important to me than tip diameter. Like I said before experiment it is part of the fun in pool. It took me many years to settle in and find exactly what I like, and there are several cues in my collection that fit different specs but I can play with them all the same but it took years to figure out, and adjust to them, its nice having several cues that I can play well with, I have a few cues I cant make a ball with but I hold them for personal reasons-most of the time I sell the ones I cant play with, they are good cues i just cant play with them. Read all you can and find what you like then think about what would make it better then make one change at a time, sometimes i wouldnt make a change for 2-3 years, but my style of play might change thus needing me to adjust the equipment, in one pocket i like a lighter cue with a delicate hit.

 

[RBLilly]

accurate

Well I am going to pat myself on the back and say I must be darn good at long shots from listening to all the people in here.

I started out like everyone with a 13mm, and I didn't know any better until about 2 years ago. Then I went down to a 12.75, to me there wasn't a lot of difference except I could put a little more action on the cue ball.

Then my wife needed a 12mm in order to close bridge because her hand is very tiny. So we got it for her and I shot with it a few times.

I liked all the spin I could put on the ball, and I immediately played well with it.

So I took an old shaft and had it milled down to a 12mm. That is my favorite playing shaft. I have also had an 11.75, but it doesn't feel much difference. My two new OB-1 shafts are going to be about 12.2 because that is as small as they make them right now.

To tell you the truth I don't feel you have to be any more accurate with it. Maybe I am wrong, but I sure don't see it. If anything I feel the shaft is more accurate because you can seem to pin point the cue ball more. That is why you can put a little more English on the ball too. Maybe I am just so used to the shaft I am more accurate with it because I am used to it, but I don't hesitate on long shots, in fact I think out of anyone in my league I am one of the better long shot players.

 

[Handsumm]

Yeah, I had my ob-1 turned down to 12.15. I like it much better than the original 12.75. I have had shafts as small as 10.75. You can really tell the difference in accuracy when going from 13 to 10.75. There is no question.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I was wondering if a great pool cue mind would give me the rundown on cue shaft diameter. What is the difference in play between a shaft with a diameter of 11.75 mm and a shaft with a 12.75 mm diameter? Is there a pros and cons list I should know about? Is a smaller/larger diameter better in some aspects and lacking in others? Etc. etc. etc. I am a roast, baste me.

I think you will get used to whatever you play with. The main practical difference in larger/smaller diameter shafts is that a smaller diameter shaft will generally have less squirt. That may or may not be important to your game. A larger diameter in a break stick will absorb the pounding better.

I'm not clear on the "more accuracy" comments made above. There are arguments on both sides of that, and so far I haven't been convinced by any of them. The same goes for the more spin comments. I think the difference in amount of spin on the ball going between 11 and 13mm is about the same as most people have between shots with the same stick.

 

[Handsumm]

I think you will get used to whatever you play with. The main practical difference in larger/smaller diameter shafts is that a smaller diameter shaft will generally have less squirt. That may or may not be important to your game. A larger diameter in a break stick will absorb the pounding better.

I'm not clear on the "more accuracy" comments made above. There are arguments on both sides of that, and so far I haven't been convinced by any of them. The same goes for the more spin comments. I think the difference in amount of spin on the ball going between 11 and 13mm is about the same as most people have between shots with the same stick.

Hence, more spin. Have you tried shooting a >8ft straight in shot with an 11 mm shaft compared to a 13?

 

[bruin70]

more accuracy???

given everything else being equal, a thicker shaft will be stiffer = more deflection.

a thicker shaft, because it is stiffer, will be MORE CONSISTANT because it will be less apt to flex in unexpected ways. i suppose in a roundabout way, that equates to better accuracy.

a thinner shaft(tip) will address the cb in smaller, more specific areas,,,therefore if you are off in your stroke, you will not hit the cb where you aimed and your error will be magnified, thus sending the cb way off it's intended path. many of your best players play with thinner shafts because they can be more specific about where they hit the cb and they have the stroke to do it. but if you are an average player, you are not stroking as cleanly as you think and you will miss a lot.

therefore if you were playing with a thinner shaft and lost your accuracy, it probably means your stroke needs to be better = i think playing with a thinner shaft will help you improve your stroke.

 

[Rod]

The only way I know to get more spin is hit farther out on the c/b. A smaller shaft will not hit any farther out than say a 13 mm.

If your stroke isn't accurate tip size is of little importance. For those that "think" they get more spin and willing to give up what they "think" is more accurate, then I'd say its a bad trade off.

Look guys, I can spin the ball but can't make a dam thing. Believe what you want but please don't sell your rumors to someone looking for advice.

The OP should use a shaft size/taper that feels good to them. In time with experience they may change but don't cut down wood until your sure its right for you. Play with others cues to give you a better idea before you decide.

Rod

 

[Bob Jewett]

... Play with others cues to give you a better idea before you decide.

Rod

I strongly agree with this advice, but I think that very few people take that path. Most seem to start with one kind of stick and then stick with it. Where I learned to play, there was some variety of sticks -- thick, thin, short, long -- because some of the sticks were pretty old and some had lost their ferrules and had them replaced. The retipping guy was careless about not taking off wood and ferrule when putting a tip on. Where I play now, the house cues are all fairly new and all alike except for minor differences in weight.

What I think is needed is a Trial Cue Kit with sets of shafts and butts and maybe weights so that a person trying to decide on a stick could vary most of the cue parameters easily.

Another factor is that much of the feel of the hit comes from what tip is on the shaft.

 

[scottycoyote]

shaft diameter is a huge deal to me, but its just more of a comfort thing rather than me noticing deflection or accuracy. I found a shaft i loved, and measured it every inch with a set of calipers and wrote it down so id have it. Basically the playing area of the shaft for me needs to start at about 12.3 and slowly progress up thru about 12.6 for the first 12 or so inches......this just feels idea, slides thru my fingers just right, everything just feels right about it.
A quick note about the ob-1's......did you guys buy those shafts that size or have someone else turn them down. Reason im asking was when i bought mine, royce said he didnt take me down below 12.5 (i think it was) because of the taper he uses and how he thought it inadversely effected the deflection when you went lower then that. I settled for 12.5 cuz it was close to what i like and of course if a cue or shaftmaker recommends something to me strongly im going to listen, they are the expert on their stuff. Just wondering ..

 

[Handsumm]

shaft diameter is a huge deal to me, but its just more of a comfort thing rather than me noticing deflection or accuracy. I found a shaft i loved, and measured it every inch with a set of calipers and wrote it down so id have it. Basically the playing area of the shaft for me needs to start at about 12.3 and slowly progress up thru about 12.6 for the first 12 or so inches......this just feels idea, slides thru my fingers just right, everything just feels right about it.
A quick note about the ob-1's......did you guys buy those shafts that size or have someone else turn them down. Reason im asking was when i bought mine, royce said he didnt take me down below 12.5 (i think it was) because of the taper he uses and how he thought it inadversely effected the deflection when you went lower then that. I settled for 12.5 cuz it was close to what i like and of course if a cue or shaftmaker recommends something to me strongly im going to listen, they are the expert on their stuff. Just wondering ..

I too talked to Royce, and he stated that he wouldn't go below 12.25 at first. When I told him I t=intended to go to like 12.1 or so, he said it would probably be ok. I definitely don't break with it, that's a given. The wood ferrule is now EXTREMELY thin (~0.8-0.9mm). Deflection is almost nil.

I would just go to 12.25 to be safe. And yes, I had it turned down by Greg Sowder here in Vancouver. He does tremendous work, and makes a damn fine cue as well.

 

[Handsumm]

more accuracy???

given everything else being equal, a thicker shaft will be stiffer = more deflection.

a thicker shaft, because it is stiffer, will be MORE CONSISTANT because it will be less apt to flex in unexpected ways. i suppose in a roundabout way, that equates to better accuracy.

a thinner shaft(tip) will address the cb in smaller, more specific areas,,,therefore if you are off in your stroke, you will not hit the cb where you aimed and your error will be magnified, thus sending the cb way off it's intended path. many of your best players play with thinner shafts because they can be more specific about where they hit the cb and they have the stroke to do it. but if you are an average player, you are not stroking as cleanly as you think and you will miss a lot.

therefore if you were playing with a thinner shaft and lost your accuracy, it probably means your stroke needs to be better = i think playing with a thinner shaft will help you improve your stroke.

I cannot disagree with this. To the OP, all advice of trying out different cues is your best bet. Find a diameter that gives you the best consistency/feel combination.

 

[bruin70]

shaft diameter is a huge deal to me, but its just more of a comfort thing rather than me noticing deflection or accuracy. ,,,,,,,,,,....this just feels idea, slides thru my fingers just right, everything just feels right about it.
A quick note about the ob-1's....,,,,,,,,,,,, Just wondering ..

in a nutshell

 

[SCCues]

Shaft sizes

I play with a 12.75mm shaft and i've tried larger and smaller sizes and this size works best for me. I don't have to worry too much about squirt or deflection since my shaft is a predator and since I started using the predator shaft it's changed my game as far as using english. Whatever size you decide on you'll have to play with it long enough to get used to how it deflects the cue ball to play your best game.

 

[PKM]

The amount of people who comment about having difficulty with accuracy or getting more spin with a Z shaft, I have to assume there's something to it. Not everything can be dismissed by "it's not the shaft, it's the player." Not to mention I'm sure there's some valid reason that Predator made the shaft that narrow other than comfort.

 

[JoeyA]

I was wondering if a great pool cue mind would give me the rundown on cue shaft diameter. What is the difference in play between a shaft with a diameter of 11.75 mm and a shaft with a 12.75 mm diameter? Is there a pros and cons list I should know about? Is a smaller/larger diameter better in some aspects and lacking in others? Etc. etc. etc. I am a roast, baste me.

9 Ball Marksman, if your screen name identifies you accurately you may want to stay with more than a 12MM shaft or larger.

I play better with a 12.75 mm shaft than a 13MM shaft.

I cut balls better with a 12 mm shaft than I do with a 12.75 mm shaft.

I seem to shoot a straight in shot better with a 12.75 mm shaft than I can a 12 mm shaft.

I like having less squirt which means I like a smaller diameter shaft but haven't really played with an 11.75 MM except for a short while.

I am working my new cue shaft down to 12.5 mm from 13MM a little at a time. I don't like 13MM shafts.

I am going to buy a Predator 5k3 314-2 and a Z-2 shaft to test out for a few months unless someon on AZ has one for sale or for rent.

Now go start a thread about which taper you should use. (try out different tapers to see which one YOU like)

JoeyA

 

[mjantti]

After years of playing, I'm happy with my 12.5mm shaft. Also, it's worth remembering that cutting your shaft very thin will decrease the resale value or at least it's more difficult to sell your cue in case you don't like the thin shaft. So I'd advice not getting too radical on thinning your shaft wood.

 

[RBLilly]

shaft diameter is a huge deal to me, but its just more of a comfort thing rather than me noticing deflection or accuracy. I found a shaft i loved, and measured it every inch with a set of calipers and wrote it down so id have it. Basically the playing area of the shaft for me needs to start at about 12.3 and slowly progress up thru about 12.6 for the first 12 or so inches......this just feels idea, slides thru my fingers just right, everything just feels right about it.
A quick note about the ob-1's......did you guys buy those shafts that size or have someone else turn them down. Reason im asking was when i bought mine, royce said he didnt take me down below 12.5 (i think it was) because of the taper he uses and how he thought it inadversely effected the deflection when you went lower then that. I settled for 12.5 cuz it was close to what i like and of course if a cue or shaftmaker recommends something to me strongly im going to listen, they are the expert on their stuff. Just wondering ..

Royce is making them at 12.2mm now because he had a lot of requests for them. So mine came straight from OB-1 at 12.2mm with sniper tips already installed!