shaft thread

[buck15]

i was selling a cue(coker) and the person who looked at the pictures said he wasn't fond of that type of thread in the shaft because it was wood and not a thread insert.he said he had seen to many strip or get stuck.i had never heard of that.i told him that probably 90 percent of cue makers make their shafts that way.what is your inout on the subject and how many do use inserts?

 

[cueaddicts]

Very few cuemakers use inserts in their 3/8-10 cues. There's really no need. However, think a few use a canvas phenolic and olivewood is used by one cuemaker that I know of. Most cuemakers however tap directly into the maple. There are slighly different methods but the goal is to end up with nice, sharp cut threads, and then most "seal" the threads using a thin CA superglue. It soaks into the wood and makes the threads a little more durable.

In recent memory I have not heard of any cues having problems with threads stripping or the like. Back 15-20 or so years ago, McDermott comes to mind, but a lot of may have been abuse or careless use. I would venture that to be the case now.

Sean

 

[Sheldon]

You are way off on the 90 percent stat, IMO.
I would say that the majority of cues have inserts in the shafts. That may not be the case for custom cues, but 90% would still be way too high of a number.

 

[Brandon79ta]

Well I'm the guy he's talking about so....My problem with no insert is maple isn't really all that hard of a wood, it's going to wear down over time and to me that means sooner or later I'm going to have to buy new shafts. I don't like having to switch shafts or even tips for that matter if I don't have to. Sure that problem should be years down the road but it's still a problem. So to me it would be like buying a ford, you know your gonna have problems with it it's just a matter of time.

 

[Sheldon]

Well I'm the guy he's talking about so....My problem with no insert is maple isn't really all that hard of a wood, it's going to wear down over time and to me that means sooner or later I'm going to have to buy new shafts. I don't like having to switch shafts or even tips for that matter if I don't have to. Sure that problem should be years down the road but it's still a problem. So to me it would be like buying a ford, you know your gonna have problems with it it's just a matter of time.

Only if it's abused. Proper threads and proper use of them will result in the threads outliving you. Especially with some of the newer thread types, like the radial threads and the Acme style threads.

 

[Brandon79ta]

Now please don't take me wrong I'm not trying to start an argument or anything but it seems to me that the constant pressure on the wood from tightening the joint would cause the threads to strip in time even with proper use.

 

[Sheldon]

Sometimes it's very hard to get an idea out of your head once you have convinced yourself it's true. Only with an open mind will you achieve enlightenment.

 

[Brandon79ta]

lol so very true. It might be different if the cue was local so I could see how the threads were cut and how well it fit, but it's not and I doubt anyone here would want to go through the hassle of selling something and then have it sent back over something that most people don't even look at.

 

[BLACKHEARTCUES]

lol so very true. It might be different if the cue was local so I could see how the threads were cut and how well it fit, but it's not and I doubt anyone here would want to go through the hassle of selling something and then have it sent back over something that most people don't even look at.

Regulars here probably get tired of me repeating this, but this is my 20th year making Qs. I have only replaced ONE of my BLACK HEART shafts, that the threads were damaged & that one was CROSS THREADED. If you get it started, there is no way to damage the threads. You can't turn that shaft hard enough, to damage the threads...PERIOD. That's my not so HUMBLE, OPINION...JER

 

[cubswin]

Look how many d series mcdermotts are out there with original shaft without any issues. Shoot I saw three of them tonight and I was only in a 15 table room.

 

[jayman]

Well I'm the guy he's talking about so....My problem with no insert is maple isn't really all that hard of a wood, it's going to wear down over time and to me that means sooner or later I'm going to have to buy new shafts. I don't like having to switch shafts or even tips for that matter if I don't have to. Sure that problem should be years down the road but it's still a problem. So to me it would be like buying a ford, you know your gonna have problems with it it's just a matter of time.

If I was the cue seller here I simply would tell you to go some where else.
And if you you know how to tighten a shaft and dont make an effort to strip out the threads it will live longer than you will.
I could be off base here but I have a feeling that you are a pain in a$$ to deal with in any transaction?....Relaxe Man! If you dont like it buy some thing else that you do like??

 

[Brandon79ta]

lol ok so I'm wrong not the first time and I'm sure it won't be the last.

Ya'll have to remember about the only places to play around here are bars so I guess I'm used to seeing stuff that gets beat on alittle more then it should be. The last wood threaded cue I seen snapped at the joint when the guy broke, but he was the type that like to bend the shaft into the table on the follow through. I guess everytime I see that pin I see that day old cue broken so you can understand why I would be alittle hesitant to buy one.

I would kinda like to hear the reason/opinions why cue makers are using this pin over say the old 5/16-14? Better hit? More weight in the pin so more forward balance? Easier to make? To keep guys coming back for replacement shafts? jk

 

[Brandon79ta]

Nah Jay all I said was it was a nice cue but I didn't really care for the pin style. It wasn't that I was trying to talk him down in price over it as I doubt he'll have any problems selling the cues I was looking at as they really are stunningly beautiful cues. I may still take the chance and buy one if I don't buy the george I just found. Believe me I nit pick way less about dings and finish then probably 99% of the guys buying and selling cues here. If the cue isn't what I want I say thanks for the offer and that's the end of it. Ask the dozen people I've talked to in the past week, I just have a good idea of what I want and I'm gonna keep looking untill I find it. Simple as that. Not to bash anyone here but I'm not looking to buy something to flip, I'm looking to buy something to keep for most likely the rest of my life unless something happens to it or I find something with a hit I like alot better. Therefore ya I'm alittle pickier about weight/pin type/shaft size and taper then your avg flipper.

Not that I have anything against flippers, I do the same thing with car parts myself.

 

[BLACKHEARTCUES]

lol ok so I'm wrong not the first time and I'm sure it won't be the last.

Ya'll have to remember about the only places to play around here are bars so I guess I'm used to seeing stuff that gets beat on alittle more then it should be. The last wood threaded cue I seen snapped at the joint when the guy broke, but he was the type that like to bend the shaft into the table on the follow through. I guess everytime I see that pin I see that day old cue broken so you can understand why I would be alittle hesitant to buy one.

I would kinda like to hear the reason/opinions why cue makers are using this pin over say the old 5/16-14? Better hit? More weight in the pin so more forward balance? Easier to make? To keep guys coming back for replacement shafts? jk

If you lean on the Q during the break,.....you will eventually snap the Q ABOVE THE JOINT. Reguardless of what joint it is. The shaft is thin & flexes. The next point to stress, is the joint. It is the strongest point, because there is a 3" steel screw at that point. Next stress point is just above the END of the joint screw(about 2" behind the joint screw. THERE IS THE POINT THAT Qs BREAK, because that is the weakest point. It has nothing to do with the type of screw is at the joint. Qmakers using the pilotless, bushingless jointed system are looking for a SIMPLE, DIRECT, SOLID, SOFTER HITTING & uncomplicated assembly of the shaft to the butt. Simply put......It works...JER

 

[Cue Crazy]

If you lean on the Q during the break,.....you will eventually snap the Q ABOVE THE JOINT. Reguardless of what joint it is. The shaft is thin & flexes. The next point to stress, is the joint. It is the strongest point, because there is a 3" steel screw at that point. Next stress point is just above the END of the joint screw(about 2" behind the joint screw. THERE IS THE POINT THAT Qs BREAK, because that is the weakest point. It has nothing to do with the type of screw is at the joint. Qmakers using the pilotless, bushingless jointed system are looking for a SIMPLE, DIRECT, SOLID, SOFTER HITTING & uncomplicated assembly of the shaft to the butt. Simply put......It works...JER

Very true,


The most common I see, especially in a bar type room is the cue leaning against something like a table or wall, and someone leaning against the cue breaking It above the joint or splitting the shaft.

I'm alittle different then some, I like the piloted feel in My player cue, but I do prefer the 3/8 wood on wood flat face for breaking, and ocasionally shoot with one. I have had people tell me about stripping the threads on some make cues, but have not witnessed it in person, and I know how easy It could be for someone to crossthread, because I've had someone come to me with that problem before. I have been breaking with them for many years, put some through the wrecking ball, and have never had it happen to Me, but I was always fully aware of starting the threads off in the correct way also. Usually If I replace the shaft It's because of warpage, or what I mentioned about people leaning up against a cue, and not the wood threads.

The main thing I would prefer on the 3/8 to wood is that the threads are snug with minimal slop, but not too tight. I would not prefer one with a oversized bore on the threads as that may increase the odds that the threads may actually strip at some point. The best breakers I have used were snug the full lenth while being screwed together, but I have had some that were'nt as snug as I like, and still had no issues. The bore would probably have to be seriously oversized for that IMO.

I'm a fan of both styles, because I feel they fit different needs in different players. I've shot with both, and I played a slightly different style with each once I adapted to them, so My preference is just a personal one, and I know many people that are the opposite. I can play with either or, altough for breaking I do prefer the wood on wood of a flat face 3/8.

Greg C

 

[Sheldon]

lol so very true. It might be different if the cue was local so I could see how the threads were cut and how well it fit, but it's not and I doubt anyone here would want to go through the hassle of selling something and then have it sent back over something that most people don't even look at.

You have a point, wood threads can be much more prone to failure than brass. There is really no way to dispute that fact since wood is soft and brass is not. (relatively)
The only wood threads I have seen fail were 3/8-10 threads that were not cut very well. The typical 3/8-10 thread design is not the best type of thread - by a long shot - for wood.
That said, with proper care cutting them and using them, they should last a lifetime.

 

[Cue Crazy]

You have a point, wood threads can be much more prone to failure than brass. There is really no way to dispute that fact since wood is soft and brass is not. (relatively)
The only wood threads I have seen fail were 3/8-10 threads that were not cut very well. The typical 3/8-10 thread design is not the best type of thread - by a long shot - for wood.
That said, with proper care cutting them and using them, they should last a lifetime.

I aggree, I don't worry about It as much with brass, especially piloted, and one reason I like the wood threads snug is so there's more contact surface, and less chance of them stripping, but Taps are tricky to get good threads with, because if you under bore too much, you can pull a tap full of wood threads back out, and time for a insert , or too loose, and your only getting contact on the tips of the threads. A tap will do the job if sharp, and you find the correct combination, I've even had luck getting good, clean, snug, threads with one after trial and error with several different size bores, but It's a fine line, and easier to cut them cleaner with a larger bore, I just don't like the fit, so try to get something in between that I can live with. live tooling is the way I want to go eventually for really clean threads and better control over the bore dia.