Shane Dennis live now

Donny Lutz said:
Am I living in a parallel universe?

I've played in fifteen national 8-ball events and watched countless hours of pro 8-ball play, and I've seen literally hundreds of safeties by very high level players.
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Yes, you must be living in a parallel universe.

Sorry Donny, but what you describe isn't what I see at any high level unless you count the tricked out uber tough non-common tables.

Of course the occasional game gets a safety battle, but its not the norm. And defend as you will, but yesterday was the epitome of it. That TAR table is tough, and yet we all (whoever caught it) watched over 20 games in a row and didn't see a single safety, even though there were a couple of games that I thought for sure they'd choose a safety. The two simply decided that going for that particular shot was their best chance to win that particular game, even if it was a shaky proposition.

The pros definitely play less defense than the mid-level amateurs, but I've seen Nick Varner play FIVE CONSECUTIVE safeties in one game! Ask Nicky, Efren, or any other world class player and they will tell you (or show you for some $) that defense is an absolutely essential part of 8-ball.
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Somebody look it up, but I was in the front row at the Orlando 8-ball IPT when Efren played Sigel. I don't recall a single safety in those sets either.

Safeties are essential in any game, but 8-ball isn't the safety fantasy that people discuss at the higher levels. Even in amateur levels.


Freddie <~~~ been to those National tournaments too, so we must be in a different universe.
 
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I'm with Freddie on this one.. That Thorsten v. Manalo match bores me to tears!
 
Read the post that I was responding to...

Cornerman said:
Yes, you must be living in a parallel universe.

Sorry Donny, but what you describe isn't what I see at any high level unless you count the tricked out uber tough non-common tables.

Of course the occasional game gets a safety battle, but its not the norm. And defend as you will, but yesterday was the epitome of it. That TAR table is tough, and yet we all (whoever caught it) watched over 20 games in a row and didn't see a single safety, even though there were a couple of games that I thought for sure they'd choose a safety. The two simply decided that going for that particular shot was their best chance to win that particular game, even if it was a shaky proposition.

Somebody look it up, but I was in the front row at the Orlando 8-ball IPT when Efren played Sigel. I don't recall a single safety in those sets either.

Safeties are essential in any game, but 8-ball isn't the safety fantasy that people discuss at the higher levels. Even in amateur levels.


Freddie <~~~ been to those National tournaments too, so we must be in a different universe.
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I was responding to a post that claimed defense in 8-ball was virtually non-existent at high level play.

I described what I have actually seen over my 58 years playing 8-ball. I never claimed that defensive games were "the norm" among pros, which is a long way from what I said.

I understand that many AZers don't like defensive play for a variety of reasons. But don't ask me, ask some of the 8-ball national and world champions. Even Mike Sigel (an offensive player, no pun intended) admits that defense is a part of championship play.

Many folks watch a pool match without even being aware of the offense/defense moves that are very common and moves like bumping an opponent's ball into a bad spot. I've had some pretty good players think these little "bumps" are mistakes! I've run many a rack while playing safe at the same time!

One more point, being defensive-minded doesn't necessarily mean that you play a lot of safeties, it means that you are always aware of such possibilities.

It's kind of like chalking up. You don't have to chalk up on every shot, but that chalk better be there when you need it!

Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor
 
Donny Lutz said:
I was responding to a post that claimed defense in 8-ball was virtually non-existent at high level play.

I described what I have actually seen over my 58 years playing 8-ball. I never claimed that defensive games were "the norm" among pros, which is a long way from what I said.

I understand that many AZers don't like defensive play for a variety of reasons. But don't ask me, ask some of the 8-ball national and world champions. Even Mike Sigel (an offensive player, no pun intended) admits that defense is a part of championship play.

Many folks watch a pool match without even being aware of the offense/defense moves that are very common and moves like bumping an opponent's ball into a bad spot. I've had some pretty good players think these little "bumps" are mistakes! I've run many a rack while playing safe at the same time!

One more point, being defensive-minded doesn't necessarily mean that you play a lot of safeties, it means that you are always aware of such possibilities.

It's kind of like chalking up. You don't have to chalk up on every shot, but that chalk better be there when you need it!

Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor
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Nice explanation, well stated. You made a lot of great points there Mr. Lutz.
 
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