sharing my 8 ball cities experience

L

lorider

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
our finals were held Monday night. I wanted to wait a couple of days to digest everything and process my thoughts to try to form an unbiased opinion.

we were in trouble right off to bat fri night in our 1st match because 4 players did not show. 2 had issues arise that I understood on was fine with.they both made it the rest of the tournament. the other 2 however " husband and wife " decided to go to a monthly flea market instead. the same 2 that decided to go to the race in talledega the weekend of 8 ball tri cups where we lost in the finals. the same 2 that decided to do who knows what the following weekend where we won the best of the rest tournament to get to the cities.

we forfeited the last 2 matches fri night after getting down 2-1. bummer !

sat we win our 1st match, but we have 2 players raised, another bummer. ther is no way we can field our 3 strongest players now. with me being the weakest of the 3 higher handicaps I elect to sit out the rest of the tournament and hope no one else is raised because we are short our other 2 players.

we win the next 2 sat. win the next 3 sun . go to the finals mon night. we wind up facing the team we forfeited to fri night.

well we lost. congrats to the winners. the same team that won it last year, and the year before that ,and the year before that , and the..... well you get the picture.

I want to say I am real proud of my team for placing 2nd after the adversity we faced with players not showing up and players getting raised. they showed a lot of grit and determination and played their hearts out over 4 days.

this same team will be in the 9 ball cities next week and I hope we can at least do as well there as we did last weekend.

this post is long enough , i just posted some of what we went through and where we finished at.

i have usually been a pretty staunch supporter of apa on this forum. in a later post i will post my " new " opinion of apa after my experience this past weekend.

stay tuned ! :grin:
 
Wow, bummer. Still, congrats for the strong finish, and good luck with the next one.

Seems like you need a "couple" of new players....
 
I feel your pain.... our team was limping by all season with 5 steady players, well at our city this past weekend one of them just decided that they didn't want to play, nor explain the reasons why which left us with only 4.

Friday night we went into sudden death and ending up having to forfeit the last match and lose 2-3, Saturday afternoon we lost our first two matches and were done.

I'm ready for a new team!
 
I think... no wait ,I know, the husband and wife would be looking for another team. Once Ok. Twice... for a flea market, I don't think so. By the way, how much does a flea cost?
 
justadub said:
Wow, bummer. Still, congrats for the strong finish, and good luck with the next one.

Seems like you need a "couple" of new players....
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thanks dub. :)

he was a decent 4 and her a decent 3.

we did pick up 2 new players for our new session that just started.

we got a lil better 4 than he was and a 2 who drills everything 90 mph but hardly ever misses a straight in shot lol.
 
JAlan said:
I feel your pain.... our team was limping by all season with 5 steady players, well at our city this past weekend one of them just decided that they didn't want to play, nor explain the reasons why which left us with only 4.

Friday night we went into sudden death and ending up having to forfeit the last match and lose 2-3, Saturday afternoon we lost our first two matches and were done.

I'm ready for a new team!
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I guess it was a pretty frustrating weekend for you.

ready for a new team huh ?

do what I did this year, start your own !:D
 
decent dennis said:
I think... no wait ,I know, the husband and wife would be looking for another team. Once Ok. Twice... for a flea market, I don't think so. By the way, how much does a flea cost?
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I will answer your question 1st. I have no idea what a flea costs. who would want to buy one ? just pick them off a stray dog for free. why buy them ?

your guess on looking for a new team is close, they started their own team this session. I honestly think we could have won the cities with them or at least it would not have been as hard to get to 2nd place . remember, we forfeited our 1st match, the missing 4 was a lil stronger than the 4 we had to rely on who lost all him matches.
i hope they realize what they cost us.

let me tell you what bothers me the most. this was their 2 nd session with us. after their 1st session the wife called my gf and said her husband lost his job and they did not have the money to play league.they wanted to play but could not afford it on her salary alone. my gf offered to pay their weekly fees until they got back on their feet.

well everything goes smoothly all session long and then playoffs they got all kind of excuses not to play. they went to talledega during 8 ball cities !? hell me an my gf paid their fees all session long and we could not afford to go to talledega if we wanted too.

wtf ?
 
decent dennis said:
I think... no wait ,I know, the husband and wife would be looking for another team. Once Ok. Twice... for a flea market, I don't think so. By the way, how much does a flea cost?
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Some teams (like mine) have been together for years, we're pretty much family and for some rather minor reasons on occasion someone will skip a league night for a movie, or the season finale of Vampire Diaries, or maybe even for a flea market, there may be something more dire that might require that someone miss a playoff night or a trophy night. However, we, as a group, will accept very few reasons for missing a cities event, and for a couple of events. If these people aren't you son's god parents or they didn't save you in a burning building or something like that, or... if you haven't played together for 20 years I think I might be looking to replace them. Sounds like you almost didn't need them anyways, congratulations on your strong finish. You should come to Las Vegas anyhow, play the mini tournaments, make some connections, meet other AZers', I think you'd find it interesting to trade APA stories with players from other parts of the country. Hope you come anyway
 
Celophanewrap said:
Some teams (like mine) have been together for years, we're pretty much family and for some rather minor reasons on occasion someone will skip a league night for a movie, or the season finale of Vampire Diaries, or maybe even for a flea market, there may be something more dire that might require that someone miss a playoff night or a trophy night. However, we, as a group, will accept very few reasons for missing a cities event, and for a couple of events. If these people aren't you son's god parents or they didn't save you in a burning building or something like that, or... if you haven't played together for 20 years I think I might be looking to replace them. Sounds like you almost didn't need them anyways, congratulations on your strong finish. You should come to Las Vegas anyhow, play the mini tournaments, make some connections, meet other AZers', I think you'd find it interesting to trade APA stories with players from other parts of the country. Hope you come anyway
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if my financial situation was better I would definitely come on my own dime.

during regular league its no big deal who shows up or not. my co captain thinks we should take them to 9 ball cities , right now I am thinking no way will I ask them to help us at 9 ball.
 
lorider said:
if my financial situation was better I would definitely come on my own dime.

during regular league its no big deal who shows up or not. my co captain thinks we should take them to 9 ball cities , right now I am thinking no way will I ask them to help us at 9 ball.
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I agree with you....unless without them, you end up forfeiting matches again. If you have enuf other players, no way in hell I'd let them play
 
justadub said:
I agree with you....unless without them, you end up forfeiting matches again. If you have enuf other players, no way in hell I'd let them play
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thanks for the vote of confidence dub. you and I have agreed on a lot of things concerning the apa but even you may not like what I am about to say.

we both have said several times that we did not see much evidence of sandbagging in our areas, well I saw a lot of it at the cities. please pardon my ignorance the last 3 years because I was naïve due to this is only my 2nd trip to the cities. the 1st time I had only been in league for 2 sessions and we went 2 and out.

I got a rude awakening my 1st match. they threw a 6 who I have played 3 times and beat him every time . i thought I knew how well he played. I did not know him and his team had won this thing for the last 4 or 5 years straight. I did not know he was not only gonna take his playing level up several notches but take it to a whole new galaxy.

our match took 2 1/2 hours. he played 27 safes and had an untold number of questionable misses that were not counted . I played about 12 safes my self. I never did ask how many total innings were played. he beat me 5-0.

our 7 who is my co captain told me he was amazed at my level of play in my loss. he said it was the best that he had ever seen me play. he said he was surprised at my level of banking and kicking , not once did I let my opponent have bih after he played a safe.i told him I got plenty of practice kicking and banking playing doubles with a 2 on my fri night team. at least we both got a laugh even after my loss.

this same 6 played a 7 sat morning beating him 5-0 also. matter of fact he went undefeated and I was suprised he never was raised.

more later :D
 
after 2 1/2 years of playing apa I decided I wanted to build a contending team. this team has only been together 2 sessions with the exception of a 5 who has only played one session. I am proud of what we accomplished in such a short time.

instead of making another long post describing the events over 4 days I will get right to the point of my new opinion of apa.

in my opinion apa has a serious flaw in rewarding teams that place in the finals automatic entry into next years cities. although my team is now a benefactor of this rule I still think it is unfair to all the other teams that have to struggle all year long trying to get to the cities.

as soon as I heard when we reached the finals that win or lose we were automatically in next years cities I figured out how the winning team managed to stay on top year after year after year.

once you reach the finals you don't have to play your ass off to win tri cups, you don't have to play your ass off to stay in the top half of your bracket every session to retain your eligibility for tri cups, you don't have to play your ass off to win the best of the rest . you don't have to play your ass off all year then get raised playing your ass off in the cities.

once you are automatically qualified you can dump to me every time you play me in regular sessions and then annihilate me in the cities and you don't have to worry about being raised . if I somehow manage to beat you in the cities I am at risk of being raised because of my inflated win % due to your dumping all year.

like I said my team is now a benefactor of this rule but I think this rule needs to be eliminated .

don't worry dub I still love the apa.:thumbup:
 
lorider said:
after 2 1/2 years of playing apa I decided I wanted to build a contending team. this team has only been together 2 sessions with the exception of a 5 who has only played one session. I am proud of what we accomplished in such a short time.

instead of making another long post describing the events over 4 days I will get right to the point of my new opinion of apa.

in my opinion apa has a serious flaw in rewarding teams that place in the finals automatic entry into next years cities. although my team is now a benefactor of this rule I still think it is unfair to all the other teams that have to struggle all year long trying to get to the cities.

as soon as I heard when we reached the finals that win or lose we were automatically in next years cities I figured out how the winning team managed to stay on top year after year after year.

once you reach the finals you don't have to play your ass off to win tri cups, you don't have to play your ass off to stay in the top half of your bracket every session to retain your eligibility for tri cups, you don't have to play your ass off to win the best of the rest . you don't have to play your ass off all year then get raised playing your ass off in the cities.

once you are automatically qualified you can dump to me every time you play me in regular sessions and then annihilate me in the cities and you don't have to worry about being raised . if I somehow manage to beat you in the cities I am at risk of being raised because of my inflated win % due to your dumping all year.

like I said my team is now a benefactor of this rule but I think this rule needs to be eliminated .

don't worry dub I still love the apa.:thumbup:
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Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but I don't believe thats an APA rule. It must be specific to your area because it don't happen here. Many players (including myself) have been quick to judge another team or player regarding sandbagging in a place like cities, and I'm sure there is a fair amount that goes on, but there are also players that because of adreneline or excitement or maybe even prayer, players that can elevate their game. Advanced players know the situation and don't take stupid chances, so when faced with a low percentage shot they look for a safe instead of trying to force a bad position, thus - 27 safeties. I know my game changes a bit during a tournament like cities, it slows down because I take an extra few seconds considering each shot and I bear down and focus. Maybe he's just one of those people that excell under pressure?
 
Celophanewrap said:
Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but I don't believe thats an APA rule. It must be specific to your area because it don't happen here. Many players (including myself) have been quick to judge another team or player regarding sandbagging in a place like cities, and I'm sure there is a fair amount that goes on, but there are also players that because of adreneline or excitement or maybe even prayer, players that can elevate their game. Advanced players know the situation and don't take stupid chances, so when faced with a low percentage shot they look for a safe instead of trying to force a bad position, thus - 27 safeties. I know my game changes a bit during a tournament like cities, it slows down because I take an extra few seconds considering each shot and I bear down and focus. Maybe he's just one of those people that excell under pressure?
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ever since I have been a member of this forum I always jumped in apa bashing threads and defended the apa and always stated I did not see evidence of sandbagging in my area.

I agree that there are people who excel under pressure and I like to think I am one of those people. I went undefeated in both the 8 and 9 ball tri cups facing some pretty good competition. believe me his level of play was in a whole new galaxy compared to the way he plays in regular session play.

we always send 2 teams to vegas every year. the other team that went last year along with this team was dq'ed for sandbagging. they have all been banned from apa. I know all of them and have faced every one of them several times , I did not think any of them were sandbaggers and I still don't to this day. no, I am not friendly with anyone that was on that team and am not defending any of them in any way. I just never saw any indication of sandbagging from any of them.

let me share with you a conversation I had with my lo during the cities. we had our other 5 raised after his 1st win in the cities . I asked the lo why did he raise him, he said it was due to his win % .
I found out later the captain of that team complained about my 5's handicap. I said ok, let me ask you another question. mind you I was not complaining just asking. I said you know me and know how I play due to having played on a team with you and also have played against you on this team here.

you saw my match against a 5 and you saw my 7's match against another 5.i said do you think my level of play matches theirs ? he said no. I said I know my level of play is no where near theirs but yet we are all 5's. I said I want you to think about this, if those 2 are way above me in level of play that means I am not a 5 or those 2 players are not 5's, you cant go just by win %. he said nothing, didn't really expect him to lol.

i do not envy a lo's job at all . there is always going to be people protesting their guy should not be raised but his opponent should be lol.

since i could not play due to having 2 players raised sat morning i spent most of the time watching other teams, mostly scouting who we might face according to the bracket we were in. for the most part i did not see anyone's level i thought was out of line ..... until we got to the quarter finals. it seemed like most 2's suddenly played like 3's, most 3's played like 4's etc etc.

my 5 did not suddenly play like a 6, he was raised solely due to his win % over last session, the tri cups and the best of the rest. it just amazed me that the 6 i faced fri night , who i beat 3 out of 3 the last 2 sessions, blew me away 5-0, blew away a 7 , 5-0 sat morning, remained undefeated all the tourney remained a 6 going to vegas but yet my 5 beats a 4 in 16 innings in his 1st match gets raised immediately. my 2 gets raised after his 1st match also.

so i just looked up my 2 players win record. i have to agree somewhat with my lo regarding my 5's 65% win record. my 2 has a 37% win record, what the heck was he raised for ?
 
APA LTC's

I am posting here B/C I did something similar to what you did Lorider. I joined a new team a few sessions ago. Had some good talent and picked up/developed some more along the way. Its all we needed to be competitive. HERE'S the CATCH......

1- wildcard slots: usually the favorite team wins, But on the off-hand occasion I have seen the team that sukks all season long eek out a win to move into LTC.

2- Last weeks are for sandbagging,........ seems a lot do it. You throw down a match just to keep your rating on the "lower" end, hence you aren't likely to go up in LTC's

3- The LO sorts out the brackets. We drew the finalist last yr on our first match. Tough!

Cap't & I hadda game plan till we seen that our "6" was bumped to a "7" while many of the other 6's were in effect going DOWN due to what I poster above....
We lost the match 2-3 taking over 3 hrs. the last match counting into dbl score. (which the other team wanted). They had advantage in both strategy and (thanks to raising my & 6's S/L ) had advantage in points during match play. :frown::frown:
 
lorider said:
after 2 1/2 years of playing apa I decided I wanted to build a contending team. this team has only been together 2 sessions with the exception of a 5 who has only played one session. I am proud of what we accomplished in such a short time.

instead of making another long post describing the events over 4 days I will get right to the point of my new opinion of apa.

in my opinion apa has a serious flaw in rewarding teams that place in the finals automatic entry into next years cities. although my team is now a benefactor of this rule I still think it is unfair to all the other teams that have to struggle all year long trying to get to the cities.

as soon as I heard when we reached the finals that win or lose we were automatically in next years cities I figured out how the winning team managed to stay on top year after year after year.

once you reach the finals you don't have to play your ass off to win tri cups, you don't have to play your ass off to stay in the top half of your bracket every session to retain your eligibility for tri cups, you don't have to play your ass off to win the best of the rest . you don't have to play your ass off all year then get raised playing your ass off in the cities.

once you are automatically qualified you can dump to me every time you play me in regular sessions and then annihilate me in the cities and you don't have to worry about being raised . if I somehow manage to beat you in the cities I am at risk of being raised because of my inflated win % due to your dumping all year.

like I said my team is now a benefactor of this rule but I think this rule needs to be eliminated .

don't worry dub I still love the apa.:thumbup:
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I get it, lorider. I do. And sad to say, I will probably run into some of the same things as we head to our States tomorrow.

As Cello already mentioned, I think the automatic qualifier thing has to be local, I have not heard of it here. I could be wrong, I often am, ask my wife :eek:

I am going to hold my head high, and do the best I can. And know that I can look in the mirror in the morning, you know the rest. And I'll probably be disgusted at those who don't or won't... but I'm gonna have fun, dammit.
 
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