Shims/extentions and shelf depth, HELP!!!

Tronpocket

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
modified my post altogether.

Is it possible to add or retain a reasonable shelf depth after shimming or extending rails on a gc3?
And what is reasonable shelf depth on a 4.25 in pocket ?
 
Last edited:

SKILLZELITE

Universality
Silver Member
modified my post altogether.

Is it possible to add or retain a reasonable shelf depth after shimming or extending rails on a gc3?
And what is reasonable shelf depth on a 4.25 in pocket ?
I recently re cushioned and felted my gc3, in my case I used neoprene shims to get me that 4.25" jaw width.

I asked the same question regarding pocket shelf depth. The answer I received from "Perfect Pocketz" was , you can deepen the pockets but the corner casting wont be right cause theyll stick out.

So Im going to say yes its possible, but in doing so youre ripping clothes, and either way itll alter the playing surfaces size.
 

ashawthing

Registered
I am looking I get my brunswick down from 5" to 4.25" as well. I am planning on shimming rather than extending the rails at the moment (might extend the rails in the future). Did you layer several facings together or did you use one peice of neoprene sheet? Thanks for any help
 

Poolhalljunkie

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Shims

I am looking I get my brunswick down from 5" to 4.25" as well. I am planning on shimming rather than extending the rails at the moment (might extend the rails in the future). Did you layer several facings together or did you use one peice of neoprene sheet? Thanks for any help

You will hate the way that plays! Your pockets will not accept well hit balls that touch the facings at all.
 

ashawthing

Registered
You will hate the way that plays! Your pockets will not accept well hit balls that touch the facings at all.


Hmmm, that was a concern I had. Basically I am trying to avoid replacing the rail rubbers. I have just bought the table 2nd hand and they are in great condition. Another idea I had was kind of a cross between shimming and rail extensions. I was thinking of taking the original pocket facings off, then extending the rail with ply. However instead of putting new rubbers on I was I would build the cushion out with a thick facing to meet the ply( basically. Extend the rubber with a facing), then put a regular facing over all of it. Anyone got any thoughts on this?


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I recently re cushioned and felted my gc3, in my case I used neoprene shims to get me that 4.25" jaw width.

I asked the same question regarding pocket shelf depth. The answer I received from "Perfect Pocketz" was , you can deepen the pockets but the corner casting wont be right cause theyll stick out.

So Im going to say yes its possible, but in doing so youre ripping clothes, and either way itll alter the playing surfaces size.

What I said was yes you can push the rails in and create more shelf depth but not much....I also said that's what we used to do back in the 70s cause we didn't know any better.....that's why when I helped with the design of the GC5...the corners are 45 degrees...to Aline the castings in the corners to fit correctly.
As fas as shimming the corners...1/4 neoprene is as thick as you would want to use.
If you can afford to have the table done the right way.....your not going to ever get the kind of play your looking for.

The tighter you make the corner pockets with shims...the more the table's going to play worse....first off the mouth or front of the pocket is wider than the back of the pocket....that's where you lose the shelf depth.
That's why the angles need to be changed when the pocket starts to get smaller.
Hell....I played on tables so bad.....balls anywhere close to the rails were impossible.....the size of the pockets don't make you a better player shooting...what they do is slow your game down to where you start to pay attention to pocketing balls.
Practice makes you better....not tight pockets.....but tighter pockets help stop your opponent from making balls that he shouldnt have..lol
Mark Gregory
 

bradsh98

Bradshaw Billiard Service
Gold Member
Silver Member

This is an awful lot of trouble to go through, for a pocket that will still play like doo-doo. If reducing the opening is your goal, and you don't mind the pocket playing poorly, you might better save yourself the hassle, and buy a set of removable pocket reducers.

In this particular example, whoever did the cushion installation did an incredibly poor job, resulting in such a large pocket opening. Instead of going through the trouble of making these little spacers, the table owner could have just had a new set of cushions installed CORRECTLY.
 

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
You will hate the way that plays! Your pockets will not accept well hit balls that touch the facings at all.

I dont know if the GCIII is the same as the GCII as far as pocket dimensions and pocket shelves but my GCII had ridiculously deep shelves, when my rails were extended and modified for current cushion profiles it made my pockets more "normal". In the original configuration a ball could sit so deep in the pocket that you could not pocket the ball hitting rail first. My pockets are 4 1/4'- 4 3/8" which I think are too tight. The reason that I personally feel they are too small is because there are shots I cant or do not attempt to play like cheating the pocket that you would normally have the option of playing on a different table. It forces me to choose other shots or routes and as far as I am concerned limits my practice rather than builds my skills. The correct practice table to me would be one that matches the tightest pockets you normally play on, if that is a pro cut Diamond thats how your/my table should be set up.
 

ashawthing

Registered


What about if I did this but instead of making fixed thickness spacers, I made the spacers so that they adjusted the pocket angle also? I am a carpenter with a workshop so this wouldn't be much trouble at all for me to do. Thanks for the help and sorry to the original poster for hijacking the thread :/


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JoeyInCali

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What about if I did this but instead of making fixed thickness spacers, I made the spacers so that they adjusted the pocket angle also? I am a carpenter with a workshop so this wouldn't be much trouble at all for me to do. Thanks for the help and sorry to the original poster for hijacking the thread :/


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What opening angle and downward angle?
Tnx
 

bradsh98

Bradshaw Billiard Service
Gold Member
Silver Member
What about if I did this but instead of making fixed thickness spacers, I made the spacers so that they adjusted the pocket angle also? I am a carpenter with a workshop so this wouldn't be much trouble at all for me to do. Thanks for the help and sorry to the original poster for hijacking the thread :/


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It will help if we have a better understanding of your goals..

I understand that you want to avoid replacing the rubber, but are you trying to avoid replacing the cloth as well? If so, that makes things much more difficult.

So long as you don't mind replacing the cloth, you have a couple of options to consider:

John Palmer, of On The Level Billiards (search OTLB here), was playing around with some subrail extensions that were created in a similar manner to what was demonstrated in the link above. I don't recall if they were ever a success, though you may want to do a search for some of his threads. If you go this route, you'll want to make sure that you have a nice flat surface to glue to. Many guys use disc or belt sanders to achieve this.
Here is the link to his extensions: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=132347&highlight=extension

Another reasonable option is to replace your current facings with thicker ones, or layers. I say 'replace' because not everyone does a stellar job of trimming facings, and you won't likely be able to just add new facings on top of the current ones. You're going to likely want to stack a couple of layers of facings together, to get your desired pocket dimensions. The material you use for the facings should be of a similar durometer rating to the cushions. They should also be trimmed to match the profile of the cushion, as closely as possible. If you decide to change the angles, you may still be able to use a disc sander, though you may want to plan to install an additional, full-thickness facing after sanding.

The second option will be much less labor-intensive, may be cheaper, and will likely produce a better end-result. However, neither of these quick-fixes will play anywhere near as good as having the work done the right way. This should only be something to get you by, until you feel like making the commitment to take the more advanced approach. If you couldn't tell, I would recommend my second proposal, over the first. This is because it is fully reversible, if you decide you don't like it. And, it will make it easier to modify the rails the 'correct' way, should you ever get the desire to do so.

Good luck.
 
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