Shims

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DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Question regarding shims.

Do all tables have shims? Or do some tables just have the rubber cushions and the cloth goes over it?

In other words if you order a table - Olhausen, Brunswick, Diamond, etc - will it come with shims? Or just the rubber, whether it be Accu-Fast, SuperSpeed, or Artemis? And how does the plain rubber behave compared to shims?

And yes, I know if you want the pockets made smaller at some point the mechanic will use shims.

r/DCP
 
I believe if you order a table standard
the pockets will not be shimmed
You should ask this in the talk to a mechanic forum
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
Question regarding shims.

Do all tables have shims? Or do some tables just have the rubber cushions and the cloth goes over it?

In other words if you order a table - Olhausen, Brunswick, Diamond, etc - will it come with shims? Or just the rubber, whether it be Accu-Fast, SuperSpeed, or Artemis? And how does the plain rubber behave compared to shims?

And yes, I know if you want the pockets made smaller at some point the mechanic will use shims.

r/DCP
Click to expand...
If you're talking pocket facings I don't know of any table that doesn't have them. Maybe a cheap aliexpress table or something... but no decent table.

It's a heavy wear point and you have to also have something there so the balls aren't just smacking wood.
 
boogieman said:
If you're talking pocket facings I don't know of any table that doesn't have them. Maybe a cheap aliexpress table or something... but no decent table.

It's a heavy wear point and you have to also have something there so the balls aren't just smacking wood.
Click to expand...

Yes, I am talking the pocket facings.

Not sure why they would be smacking wood. Wouldn't the rubber cushion extend to the pocket?
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
Question regarding shims.

Do all tables have shims? Or do some tables just have the rubber cushions and the cloth goes over it?

In other words if you order a table - Olhausen, Brunswick, Diamond, etc - will it come with shims? Or just the rubber, whether it be Accu-Fast, SuperSpeed, or Artemis? And how does the plain rubber behave compared to shims?

And yes, I know if you want the pockets made smaller at some point the mechanic will use shims.

r/DCP
Click to expand...
All pockets have facings. Shimming is the cheap/easy way to tighten pockets. They go on top of the facings.
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
Yes, I am talking the pocket facings.

Not sure why they would be smacking wood. Wouldn't the rubber cushion extend to the pocket?
Click to expand...
If you look at a rail with the pocket facing removed you will see wood at the back. It's just covered by the facing. Here's a pic from google with and without the rubber. So basically if the facing wasn't there the cloth would be over rail rubber and cloth over wood at the back of the pocket. The wood would take a lot of damage without the protection the rubber provides, plus it would probably play and sound bad.

1763779801629.jpeg


1763779837218.jpeg


EDIT: Here's a pic of my Olhausen without rail cloth on it yet. Notice the thick black rubber facings. I did this to correct pocket geometry instead of a subrail extension. It's not the "proper" way but it worked great and still plays really well. Doing it the correct way involved more work and expense than I wanted to invest in a furniture grade table. As for the rails themselves, notice the black cushions, then the wood rails themselves. If there were no facings the balls would hit cloth covered wood at the back of the pockets.

1763780256201.png
 
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DrCue'sProtege said:
Question regarding shims.

Do all tables have shims? Or do some tables just have the rubber cushions and the cloth goes over it?

In other words if you order a table - Olhausen, Brunswick, Diamond, etc - will it come with shims? Or just the rubber, whether it be Accu-Fast, SuperSpeed, or Artemis? And how does the plain rubber behave compared to shims?

And yes, I know if you want the pockets made smaller at some point the mechanic will use shims.

r/DCP
Click to expand...
No. Not all tables have shims. But virtually every table has pocket facings. The pocket facings have a different hardness than the cushions (slightly harder) for a few reasons. The Durometric reading for many pocket facings is around 60.

Maybe we're saying the same thing, but there is a semantics issue going on. People don't use something called a "shim" to tighten a table. They put in a pair of extra pocket facings (or maybe just use a thicker single one on each side). This is loosely called shimming the pocket but (again) , I'm pretty sur this doesn't refer to a special pool table "shim."

-td
 
boogieman said:
If you look at a rail with the pocket facing removed you will see wood at the back. It's just covered by the facing. Here's a pic from google with and without the rubber. So basically if the facing wasn't there the cloth would be over rail rubber and cloth over wood at the back of the pocket. The wood would take a lot of damage without the protection the rubber provides, plus it would probably play and sound bad.

View attachment 865089

View attachment 865090

EDIT: Here's a pic of my Olhausen without rail cloth on it yet. Notice the thick black rubber facings. I did this to correct pocket geometry instead of a subrail extension. It's not the "proper" way but it worked great and still plays really well. Doing it the correct way involved more work and expense than I wanted to invest in a furniture grade table. As for the rails themselves, notice the black cushions, then the wood rails themselves. If there were no facings the balls would hit cloth covered wood at the back of the pockets.

View attachment 865099
Click to expand...
Thanks for the pic. A long while ago this is what I mentioned in a previous thread, about modifying the facing to adjust the angle and tighten the pocket. I’m guessing but was the original angle 146 and you changed it to 141?
 
boogieman said:
If you look at a rail with the pocket facing removed you will see wood at the back. It's just covered by the facing. Here's a pic from google with and without the rubber. So basically if the facing wasn't there the cloth would be over rail rubber and cloth over wood at the back of the pocket. The wood would take a lot of damage without the protection the rubber provides, plus it would probably play and sound bad.

View attachment 865089

View attachment 865090

EDIT: Here's a pic of my Olhausen without rail cloth on it yet. Notice the thick black rubber facings. I did this to correct pocket geometry instead of a subrail extension. It's not the "proper" way but it worked great and still plays really well. Doing it the correct way involved more work and expense than I wanted to invest in a furniture grade table. As for the rails themselves, notice the black cushions, then the wood rails themselves. If there were no facings the balls would hit cloth covered wood at the back of the pockets.

View attachment 865099
Click to expand...
Nice work. Mind boggling after 40 years they haven't fixed their pocket angles.
 
jtompilot said:
Thanks for the pic. A long while ago this is what I mentioned in a previous thread, about modifying the facing to adjust the angle and tighten the pocket. I’m guessing but was the original angle 146 and you changed it to 141?
Click to expand...
This is the thread about it so as to not sidetrack this one.

The angles, without facings are inconsistent. Some nitwit must have had the chop saw set incorrectly. 😠

End rail number 1: Right end (holding wood towards me, rubber away)is 142.3 degrees, left is is 145.4.
End rail 2: Right end is 142.4, left is 145.4.

So around 3 degrees difference between sides on a single end rail, both rails. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume the whole table is like this, all right sides are probably 142, all left 145. (EDIT: They were)
Click to expand...
If you look at the pic I posted above you can see the difference in each side and how much rubber had to build it out to the correct angle.

In the end I shot for 141 but they came out 142, he table played great with the Olhausen rattle eliminated.
 
So, am I correct in assuming my new Diamond Professional will have pocket facings but no shims? I am getting the 4.75" corner pockets instead of the 4.5" pockets. Which means the rail rubber will be cut 1/4" less and then the facing goes over the rubber cushion.

And didn't shims years ago used to be sort of a charcoal type substance? And if so, is that what they use nowadays?
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
So, am I correct in assuming my new Diamond Professional will have pocket facings but no shims? I am getting the 4.75" corner pockets instead of the 4.5" pockets. Which means the rail rubber will be cut 1/4" less and then the facing goes over the rubber cushion. And didn't shims years ago used to be sort of a charcoal type substance? And if so, is that what they use nowadays?
Click to expand...
When you say "shims", you are referring to pocket facings. All tables have them. The term "shimming" references adding multiple facings to reduce the pocket size. This is not the correct way to tighten pockets.

The rubber and subrail will be cut the appropriate size and angle for 4.75" pockets. If you want to tighten them at a later date, the correct method is to add wood to the subrail, install new cushions, then cut the pockets to the desired size and angle.
 
garczar said:
i was thinkin exact same thing. diamond's staff is gonna earn their money with this cat. back when i worked retail there ware some folks that made me cringe on site, like this guy.
Click to expand...

You really don't believe that. You know there's alot of joking around on this forum. Most of it done to hopefully put a smile on people's faces.

And whatever that idiot u12armresl said about me just ignore him. He has no clue what he's talking about.
 
garczar said:
i was thinkin exact same thing. diamond's staff is gonna earn their money with this cat. back when i worked retail there ware some folks that made me cringe on site, like this guy.
Click to expand...

Tell you what garczar. Once my Diamond Professional is delivered I want you to call Aaron at Diamond and ask him how our transaction went down. Find out first hand if I was a pain in the a$$ or a nut case. Then let the Forum know.

Deal?
 
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