Shooting for High League Average?

Get_A_Grip

Get_A_Grip

Truth Will Set You Free
Silver Member
Hi All, Just curious if others have experienced the frustration that I'm having with my teammates...

My theory when playing in a handicapped BCA 8-ball league, is that I'm trying to obtain the highest point average that I can. Since having a high average relative to everyone else's means to me -- that on average over the course of the season -- that I have played better than everyone else in the league with a lower average than me (that have played a significant number of games).

Now, my captain and a different teammate are constantly telling me:
1) Oh, I want to keep my average low -- so it's easier for us to win (but my theory is -- that's hogwash -- and he's just saying that to make up for his lack of ability)
2) I don't care about averages -- all I know is that when other players know that they have to play me -- they aren't liking it and know they are in for a tough game.

For me, although I'm on a team -- the most important thing for me is to play my best so that I can rank myself against the other players in the league.

I've had a night when I got zero points -- and have had a night with 20+ points -- but I'm thinking that it's probably fair to use your average over the entire season to rank your playing ability against the other players.

I think that I currently have the 7th highest average in the league (out of 54 players) -- while the top 5 averages are for players that are all on the SAME TEAM!

What I would also be interested in hearing is how people think the league averages would equate to a player's rating, for example: A = >9; B = 7-9; C = 4-6; D = <4 (or maybe a scale where an A player is >10,11,12, or higher.)

Thoughts?
 
A lot of that BCA ranking is dependent on the level of play in your league.

I did what you are doing for a couple seasons and made it to a 9.2 average. I am by no stretch an "A" player

I'm a 5 (albeit a pretty good one) in APA, this is more indicative of my true ability.
 
jongreve said:
A lot of that BCA ranking is dependent on the level of play in your league.

I did what you are doing for a couple seasons and made it to a 9.2 average. I am by no stretch an "A" player

I'm a 5 (albeit a pretty good one) in APA, this is more indicative of my true ability.
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Thanks. Those are some good points. May not be able to equate average to A, B, C, D ratings...just based on fact that different leagues have different numbers of highly skilled players.

In our league...the top five players all have averages somewhere between 14-15 (and I'm guessing that they would all claim to be A-players).
 
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It also sounds like a different set-up.

Ours maxed out at 10 points (for a win). So if you win every game your average would be 10.0

You also earned 1pt for every ball you pocketed in the event of a loss. If you get to the eight and lose every single game, you'd be at 7.0.

Yes, it was a BCA league.
-Jon
 
Sounds like you have the making of a much better pool player than your teammates. Handicap leagues often promote a player to stay fixed at one level and not improve, stagnant players. Then you have the sandbaggers which are worse. Your mentality will soon take you away from the league from the competitive point of view and just use it for the social aspect. I would get out and use other avenues to test your game other than your handicap league. Play scratch tournaments, scratch competitive leagues or gamble some cheap. You will get much more out of these from a competition standpoint.
 
jongreve said:
It also sounds like a different set-up.

Ours maxed out at 10 points (for a win). So if you win every game your average would be 10.0

You also earned 1pt for every ball you pocketed in the event of a loss. If you get to the eight and lose every single game, you'd be at 7.0.

Yes, it was a BCA league.
-Jon
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That's another good point. Each player plays three games a night -- so the numbers that I gave for averages -- might better be listed as averages per game -- so the highest in our league of 14.5 would be a 4.8 point average per game (which is the best way to compare averages with leagues that play a different number of games in the match). We play that each game you can get a maximum of 9 points - 2 points for 8-ball and 1 ball for every ball your opponent has left on table = or a maximum for the entire match of 27 points.
 
jongreve said:
You also earned 1pt for every ball you pocketed in the event of a loss. If you get to the eight and lose every single game, you'd be at 7.0.
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The league i play in right now is the same format, and my captain is also telling me to lose some games to keep my average down, as a matter of fact i had to sit out last week because we were playing a weaker team and he wanted another spare that was a 6 to play instead of me, sucks that i cant play a week just because of my avg
 
johnnydub said:
The league i play in right now is the same format, and my captain is also telling me to lose some games to keep my average down, as a matter of fact i had to sit out last week because we were playing a weaker team and he wanted another spare that was a 6 to play instead of me, sucks that i cant play a week just because of my avg
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I agree, that is also frustrating. Sometimes the captain has his wife play for the same reason (and she has a 0.25 average). But guess what -- it doesn't matter -- because she can't execute anyway when it counts.

My experience has been the the more skilled players with the higher averages are able to dig deep and deliver more often than the lesser skilled players when it counts -- and still win more games in the end anyway.
 
This is interesting to me because we used to score our league like you do but now we are on the 10-point system as previously described.

In our old way of scoring I was about an 11 or 12 average, and under the new 10-point system I am averaging around 8.5 plus or minus .2. My defensive avg. is right at or near a 6.0 so Im at a plus/minus net of positive 2.5 avg. or so. But I do sandbag a few games every year to keep my avg. down a little as a way to decrease our overall team net for the handicapping purposes which is something that might be overall bad for my game I guess. I hope to have a team together next year where I don't feel I need to do that anymore.

I'm always unsure how to rate myself as a player. I've seen the various rating systems used and I wonder what is the most used, most common system of rankings out there as a whole?

For those who are familiar with it, I play Fargo and according to it's ranking sysyem I'm consistently ranking at the "A" level using it's ranking system based on my scores. I flirt with the low side of the "AA" and I want to improve to the point where I'm consistently getting scores in the "AA" range. Fargo has Pro, AA, A, B, C, and D as it's levels. I think I'm an A player by most respects, but I guess it's all relative to the ranking systems in question. :confused:

Oh well, I don't ever intend to be a pro but being at/near the Master or AA level is my overall goal which I intend to get to within the next few years.
 
Well, I imagine this is due to how BCA leagues work - where the team with the higher total handicap has to give up the difference in points every round to the other team.

Say one team has five 8s, that's 40 - other team has five 6s, that's 30. So the 6s team would get 10 free points per round.

(If your local BCA leagues work differently, then there you go.)

So if your handicap was one point lower - that would be one less point your team would have to give up, or one MORE point your team would get should your team's total be under the other team's total. That one point could mean the difference between tying a round instead of losing, or winning instead of tying.

And the way our league works, scoring is primarly based on round wins, I believe... so that would mean that handicap-jiggery could well make a difference.

Fortunately in our little league, no one sandbags on purpose - everyone I've played has gone all-out, as best I can tell.
 
It has been a long time since I played a handicapped league...

There are a lot of scratch league options in my area where a high average is definitely a good thing. There is a master league, a couple which limit the number of master's on a team. And also a no-master scratch league...it is a 5 person team, 25 game, 2-table league which takes about 2 hours.
 
Honestly, unless you are doing this for a living, do whatever makes you happy. If it gets to be a problem, find another team to play on that is more interested in having fun and shooting their best game.
 
MinoInADixeCup said:
Honestly, unless you are doing this for a living, do whatever makes you happy. If it gets to be a problem, find another team to play on that is more interested in having fun and shooting their best game.
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For next year, I already decided to try a different league. Next year will be a 5-man team -- where the players will be stronger, but using the same handicapping and scoring system.

I've just been doing my own thing anyways I guess, but hearing your teammates downplay the averages constantly trying to make themselves feel better all of the time, gets a little old.

I also have to constantly tell them, that running 5-7 balls and not getting out -- is not necessarily something that I would be cheering about -- since you're just making it easier for the other player to get out (but that's a whole other beef I have...ha).
 
The first night that I played in a BCA league I played the very last game against the LO. He made one ball and then missed. I ran out the table. When he shook my hand he said that his team only needed one point for totals so he missed on purpose.

I didn't really know the whole format for scoring at the time and just wanted to play my best and not worry about my handicap rating. That is the reason I wanted to play in the BCA. Found out that it was no different than the APA and quit after that session.
 
Ouch ...

Not sure I would like playing with a team like that... We play on the 10 point system 1 point for every ball made and 3 points for making the 8 ball and we have alot of fun ... We encourage each other to shoot our best I could probably play on a better team we are currently in second in the league but I'm content because I enjoy the company of my teammates ... I'm currently the top ranked player in our league with two weeks to go though there is probably one or two better then me in the league I have just been on this season and hitting the balls good... I'm averaging in the low 9's right now this is just my first year in the pool league so I'm still learning ...lol

I'm happy playing where I do ... I also find tournaments and some money games to play in outside the league ... But to me the league is for fun and I'm going to do my best and not get stressed ...I think that is why I enjoy playing on the team I do they encourage me to get a 10 every chance I can...
 
I think your goal is admirable. I share it as well.. I'm in it to win it...I just plain expect to crush whoever my opponent is.. I expect to win and dedicate a significant portion of my life to that goal. I want to be the best there is.. period.

I have nothing but disgust for sand baggers.. A sand bagger is the same guy who at work complains that he doesn't make as much money as me..but you can never find him when you need him because he's "on break".

bagger attitude... you know if I lose the first 3 weeks next year I might be able to beat him with my handicap next year..

my attitude..he has no chance against me..he's not going to win .. this year or next.

Lazy is lazy and in most aspects of life that kind of attitude.. never makes you the best at anything.. it just makes you lazier.
 
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