Should I learn how to jump or just stick with kicking?

It can't hurt to learn to jump with a full cue.

The key is your elbow position. Look at the way Corey Deuel and Earl Strickland and any pro who uses a full cue to jump do it. They get their elbow up high and stroke downward at a side angle. It gives you a lot more leverage and allows you to shoot through the stroke whereas a jump cue may not be the right size for you. The biggest advantage of the jump cues is that they are usually easier to sight the ball and learn how to use, but trust me jumping with a full cue is a lot easier than a lot of people think!
 
by the way ...

You should be a middle 'B' player before being worried about learning to jump.
IMO, and on a 2-12 9 ball rating, you would have to be a 6.5 before you
should worry about jumping the cue.

When you are playing in games, money and tournaments, where jumping
becomes more of a factor, then 'not knowing how to jump' becomes
a problem. And if you have a problem, then you need to solve it ... by
learning how to jump.

When I bought my first jump cue (although I could jump with my playing cue), I was in Vegas, and bought a Frog from Robin Dodson. She gave excellent
demonstrations and lessons on how to jump. The demonstrations given for the Bunjee were also good.

and by the way, since you are using Johnny's nickname, how come you
don't have a Scorpion jump cue? That is the other jump cue I have,
and it is a good one too. Jumps better than the Frog, but I have more
accuracy with the Frog. The Scorpion weighs just 8.5 ozs. and is 41" long.

I got my Scorpion from www.michaeljscues.com with free shipping and
a free leather butt case for $80 at the time.

Also, IMO, the phenolic tips jump easier than hard leather tips, but I
think the hard leather tip offers more accuracy than the phenolic tip
for the average player.
 
Loun said:
I went looking for some "jumping lessons" but wasnt able to find anything on blackjacks page and since its 5am and i havent gone to bed I am useless right now trying to locate it elsewhere. Anyone have a link to a tutorial?
OK, since you asked for "jumping" tips, here goes it.

First, I'll tell you what jumping is NOT: Common misconceptions
1. Elevating the stick way high
2. Death grip on the stick
3. Pounding into the cue ball
Those 3 things will guarantee that you won't jump successfully.


So, now here's what Jumping IS:
1. Many jump newbs first try to elevate their stick too much. For starters, simply elevate the butt of the stick about 30 degrees.

2. Aim basically through the core center of the cue ball. Sometimes people tend to try to aim too low on the cue ball, even when they think they are hitting core center. So, as a correction, go ahead and aim about 3/4 of a tip above core center.

3. Grip lightly. Very important, when people start jumping, they tend to try to grip the stick too hard. Gripping too hard gives less beneficial jumping results, and increases the chances of damaging the table felt. Gripping lightly will allow the proper movements to occur.

For example, just to help you relax about tearing the felt do the following: Just lightly and comfortably grip the stick with thumb and index fingers and middle finger (overhand grip for this exercise). Now just flick the stick right at the table felt itself. You should see the stick just bounce right off the table without even coming close to ripping the felt. You should see some lines on the felt left from the chalk, but that's basically it. When you do this a few times, you'll see that you don't have to be quite so afraid of the felt.

Also note: if you do create a huge gash in the table, then I'm not liable for any information contained herein.... :)

4. Flick it. The motion for jumping is not about powering the ball, but instead is to flick it. The motion is more like throwing a dart. You can feel it in the wrists.


Another ironic aspect of learning to jump, is that people tend to start off trying virtually the most difficult jump there is. Grab the cue ball, put it about 4 inches or less behind another ball, and try to jump clear over it. It can be done, but I'd bet virtually any amount of money that any new jumper will fail at that one.

Instead, start with an easy jump. Setup 3 object balls in a row all touching each other. This line of balls should be perpendicular to the line to the cue ball, which will be about 15 inches away. Remove the middle ball. Theoretically, it'd be possible to get the cue ball through there, but extremely unlikely. So, feel free to move 1 object ball about 1 millimeter or less closer to the other object ball. Now, you know it's impossible to get through without jumping.

When you succeed at jumping by that, then you can shrink and shrink the gap, until eventually you are able to jump over a full ball. By this time you will have also developed the proper feel for it.


5. Now that you have those basics down, just go ahead and attack it. After all this earlier discussion about grip lightly and flick it, people tend to learn the proper feel, but are also too timid. Now, you can attack it, and be more aggressive. Sort of like, really snapping a dart.


Also feel free to try the overhand grip for jumping as well. That will really feel as if you are throwing a dart. NOTE: even with overhand grip, you typically do not want to over elevate the butt of the stick. In most situations, would not recommend elevating the butt of the stick past 45 degrees.


The key to jump sticks is that they are lighter. Thus, the stick bounces away from the ball quicker, allowing for more spring from the cue ball as it recoils off the table slate and felt.

Detailed physics description coming shortly ... j/k.
 
Just a suggestion. If you have a billiard table in your pool room along with a reasonably good 3 cushion player - take some time and learn the game. Not only will you learn to kick, but to kick and remain defensive at the same time with better control over the cue ball. I know you have asked about jumping also. If you learn how to jump with your playing cue your skill will be broader as you can now play in tournaments that do not allow jump sticks. How to jump is a matter of watching someone who does it well. Go to a pro/am tournament and ask someone, you will be surprised at how many players would be willing to help you.
 
I was up til 5am and just got up so i missed the party in this thread this morning :)

"what kind of cue are you using? jump cue, or playing cue? what kind of shaft if its a playing cue?" I just got a new stick the other day so now the two I have is a Players 3 piece that is 20oz I think and my new one is a mcdermott 18.5oz. I honestly dont knwo for sure whats on the for tips. I just had the tip and ferulle replaced on the players cue and i think it was a medium hardness tip that was put on it. The mcdermott is whatever came on the stick it was a leftover from 2000 I guess. Im more worried about trying to learn to shoot than worried about the specifics of my hardware at this point lol (although I know that might make a difference too)

FLIck it thank you for that longwinded explanation! I will more than likely print it and bring it to the club with me. One would think that you make the "dont" list while watching me try :). I definitely hit at too steep an angle, and i try to drive through the cue ball. So now i know thats not how you do it. What i will do is break down the players and try with that. I really wish i could find a scrap of cloth quickly though as I want to learn asap (because i lose sleep at night if I dont..) lol. In the APA are you allowed to switch sticks or if yours is a 3 piece jump cue can you beak the butt down for the shot? I know you arent allowed to break your stick early but in reading the rules it adds something about "and making a scene" which to me would mean you arent supposed to get pissy if you are losing and whip you stick around.

Flick would a masse be a similar stroke or is that a more forceful stroke to get the spin on the ball? Are there any video tutorials anywhere online? I know I saw some a short while back of 9 banks.. 1 hole escape... and a ton of other incredible shots / runs (but i cant remember where anyone know?)


CatsCradle how did the tourney go? Im sorry I had to bail, hopefully I can come out next week and try that jump stick out :) Know anyone I can get a small scrap of cloth from or should I just go out with a carpet knife in the cover of darkness? (jk) i will hit a local recon shop and see if they have anything.


As far as someone else agreeing that I should learn to kick first and then masse and then jump. I actually agree with this but i wont stop until I can effectively do all three. Right now I can kick fairly well 1 2 and 3 rails. Often times id actually rather go 2 rails than 1 because it allows for more control of where the cue ends up i believe. Dont get me wrong I have a lot to learn with kicking but I can usually make a good hit. As far as masse'ing goes, I can get the ball to curve around and obsticle ball as long as its maybe a foot or more away from the cue ball and often times i can pocket or cut the object ball in so although this is more of a curve than a masse... its a start.

Thanks a ton guys, thank you for helping me try to improve my game :)

-Lou
 
First learn angles and kicks....then learn jumps.

First and foremost, once you understand how a jump shot works, it'll be easier to execute it.
The best I can explain it to anyone is to imagine you are holding a pit or seed in between your pointer finger and thumb. When you give it alittle squeeze it'll shot out.
Same concept in the jump shot.....you are squeezing the cueball in between your cue tip and the bed of the table. Except you don't actually squeeze (it's more of a follow thru poke/jab shot, if this makes any sense).

Stance: Always lift your back foot (heel) up so you're on you

Cue Angle: The closer the shot, the higher the angle needed to make the cueball jump. Start no more then "armpit" level or height

I strongly suggest...

1] To pratice with a break cloth (piece of felt) so you dont mark or rip the cloth (even though you shouldn't even come close to the bed of the table while making a jumpshot).
2] Ask if would be ok to practice on a table that isn't your's.
 
Loun said:
I cant for the life of me legally jump a cueball. I can scoop with the best of them (often times while trying to draw the full length of the table) and I can get the ball to jump off the table on a break :) But I can't legally jump the cue when I want to. I think I understand the concept and have looked at some tutorials on how to... I think part of my problem is that I play on a table which if I tear the felt I will be beaten to death so I think fear is keeping me from figuring it out.First you need a jump Q with a phenolic tip.

My question is... If I am good at kicking... I can pretty much make a good hit on a ball no matter where it is on the table, however I often times can't pocket that ball, I can only hit it. Should I learn to jump the cue ball or just keep practicing with the kicks instead? How much risk is there to tearing the felt if done correctly? And wheres the best tutorial on it? I think im going to go in search of blackjacks page to see if its on there.

Any comments or suggestions are welcome. Thanks

-Lou
If you play 9ball or 8ball , you have to be able to jump. You can make balls with jumping that you could never do with kicking.[ ie you can jump over 2 balls and cannon the OB into the 9 ,thats sitting over the pocket. Try doing that with kicking! jumping is a 100 times easier in many situations. IMO, jump cues should be banned.

Gabber
 
Loun said:
CatsCradle how did the tourney go? Im sorry I had to bail, hopefully I can come out next week and try that jump stick out :) Know anyone I can get a small scrap of cloth from or should I just go out with a carpet knife in the cover of darkness? (jk) i will hit a local recon shop and see if they have anything.
-Lou

There were enough players that they had a luck of the draw partners tourney. I got lucky and drew one of the better (better than me anyway) players. Since I looked around the room and didn't see anybody who I couldn't beat on any given day I felt pretty good about our chances. We won the first round and in the second round were hill-hill and my partner put the 8 in out of sequence and we went to the losers side. The losers side was a race to 1, so anything could happen and did. Either one of us would probably beat either one of the others more often than not, but not last night. C'est la gere.

I had my table recovered a couple of months ago. When I get home this weekend I'll look around for an extra piece of cloth and bring it next week if I find one. I'm a pack rat so they'll probably be a piece to be found.
 
Steve thanks a ton. Im a pack rat as well so I know how that goes :) I will let you know if im able to find a piece before then. I have to start practicing for saturdays playoffs :) (although i dotn think I will be busting out any jump shots there yet)

Thanks again for hte help everyone. The only thing im still looking for is videos or drawings/tutorials on jump and masse. Otherwise im going to make steve teach me next week :p
 
vapoolplayer said:
and with that jacoby, you could jump a ball less than a chalk's width apart and draw your rock back 2 feet.......... :p

VAP

Some people can but I haven't seen it. LOL

Skippy
 
Loun said:
Steve thanks a ton. Im a pack rat as well so I know how that goes :) I will let you know if im able to find a piece before then. I have to start practicing for saturdays playoffs :) (although i dotn think I will be busting out any jump shots there yet)

You asked earlier about jumping in the APA. You definitely cannot re-configure your stick, that is, break it down. However, I believe Bob in his leagues allows you to switch back to your break cue to jump, though I'm not sure he'll allow it in the playoffs. Last year in the nationals we were told switching sticks to jump was not allowed.

Thanks again for hte help everyone. The only thing im still looking for is videos or drawings/tutorials on jump and masse. Otherwise im going to make steve teach me next week :p

I might teach you to jump, but I won't teach you to jump WELL. :D
 
jump vs kick

Kicking is far more important than jumping. Certainly there are times when jumping is the only option. I agree that you should take some time to learn how to jump (easy to learn the correct method... more difficult to hone it, ie pocketing balls with shape)... but if you do learn to jump, and even if you become fairly proficient at it, dont fall into the catagory of a shooter who
'never met a jump shot he didnt like' If I play 8 or 9 ball with a guy who loves to jump (relishes the opportunity when it presents itself), I know that I will beat him in a normal or long race, (ie, one or two games not relevent) because substancially more often than not, the kick is the shot, and he will overlook that correct shot and instead opt for the jump... even if he makes the legal hit, or pockets the ball, higher percentage he is out of line, and for sure the hit, leaving him a tougher shot is much better (the lion share of the time). So, I like your attitude.. keep the practice and in game situation the kick shot.. learn the jump, but remember, 'a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing'. Kick = 95% jump = 5%.. do the math and you decide which is the more important shot to excel.
 
SkippyFL said:
Isn't jumping almost always a better option than a masse?

Skippy

Here are two positions where I like the masse over the jump, one involving defense and one involving offense.

In the above table, your'e hooked on the eight and not even english will allow you to play the one rail kick. A little bit of left hand masse, however, will enable you to play the kick safe under the eight, and I find that I can execute this kick safe consistently from this position. Unless the ball were pocketed, a jump will usually sell out.

In the below table, its as simple as this. If you can make the five and hold shape on the six, you'll run out. Your one rail kicks are cut off so you need to choose between the jump and the masse. The masse has the advantage of enabling you to approach the five at far less speed than the jump. My choice here would be to use a little right hand masse to make the five long rail first. The slow speed and the right hand english both help me to hold the shape. One might succeed with the jump, too, but if you don't catch the five dead square, you might lose the cue ball and lose the shape.

Ultimately, you have to play into your own strengths, but the more features you have, the more options you'll have at the table.
 

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