Shoulder Screws in Today's Cues
- Thread starter Michael Webb
- Start date
Unfortunately, that can't be done with a radial pin.desert1pocket said:
Can be done with all 3/8 threads though.
JoeyInCali said:Unfortunately, that can't be done with a radial pin.
Can be done with all 3/8 threads though.
He does it with 5/16 also. I made the cue that I play with, and I used a 3/8-10 fully threaded pin that I made, and I cut the female threads rather than tapping. It was tricky enough doing 3/8, which is why I have so much respect for his abitlity to do it for 5/16. I know another cuemaker who turns his own pins that are similar to a radial, and then he uses live tooling to cut the female threads. If I ever get the time to make some cues, I would like to think I would make my own pins.
Sheldon said:Well, that's another matter entirely....
My point was that even with a straight hole, a standard tap can wander a little, causing your pin to wobble.
Now you have finally said something in this thread that I totally agree with, and on the record you know I have the deepest respect for your cues BUT!
Even though a tap can have a lead what if the shaft is not being held as straight as one may think it is?
I am not bashing the radial just questioning shoulders in pins. That was my original post.
As far as whole alignment , drilling and tapping,
That's why we are CUE MAKERS. For every normal senarial, there is always a What if!
I do a lot of repairs at tournaments and receive a lot thru shipments, I see all of the what ifs. So I have no choice but to consider them into every equation.
Is it not normal practice to chuck the tap on the tailstock chuck when threading? Wait....are you referring to the tap's shaft/shank or the cue shaft? If it's the cue shaft then getting it aligned straight should've been a priority check even before boring , right?Michael Webb said:
bandido said:
Yes for normal standards but WHAT IF, you rely on collets in the spindle. I know most of us have some sought of chuck on the end of the spindle but that could also be off if the wrong collet is on their, These are abnormal circumstances but they are more normal than you think. From working on the many different cues that I do, as I'm sure you also. Say the shaft you are working on, spins straight for the most part but 4 to 8 inches from the joint it has a bounce to it. Was it actually held straight while drilling, boring, tapping.
Michael Webb said:
When the stage of boring and tapping has been reached in my construction, that shaft should've already stopped acting up and the long surfaces should stay true to the centerline of the piece. Shafts that show any kind of deviation from center, when close to final and next to the boring/tapping stage, are tossed. For this chore (boring and tapping stage), I already took out the what if.
Mike, I have a different system than what I picture that you're trying to describe.
I use to use collets at the other end of the spindle. What I do is dial the tip end with the joint end supported, through the joint end's centering hole, by the live center without the chuck's jaws touching the piece. Once the tip end is trued, the chuck is tightened and work piece is centered.
Is this the answer you're looking for?
I use to use collets at the other end of the spindle. What I do is dial the tip end with the joint end supported, through the joint end's centering hole, by the live center without the chuck's jaws touching the piece. Once the tip end is trued, the chuck is tightened and work piece is centered.
Is this the answer you're looking for?
There all good answers. Thank you all for your input. I had a lot of fun with this thread. Next time one of your customers think everything is easy with cues, I hope you use some info from this thread to confuse them.
Sheld, would the tap still wonder off if you lock up the tailstock to the ways, crank the tap in the hole until it's snug but don't spin yet ( so the your first thread is deep ), then lock the crank/lever, release the tailstock from the bed, spin the chuck by hand ( easier if released too of course )?Sheldon said:Well, that's another matter entirely....
My point was that even with a straight hole, a standard tap can wander a little, causing your pin to wobble.
I think it wonders off more often if you use the tailstock's lever or crank.
JoeyInCali said:Sheld, would the tap still wonder off if you lock up the tailstock to the ways, crank the tap in the hole until it's snug but don't spin yet ( so the your first thread is deep ), then lock the crank/lever, release the tailstock from the bed, spin the chuck by hand ( easier if released too of course )?
I think it wonders off more often if you use the tailstock's lever or crank.
While you could probably reduce the amount of deflection the tap will have, I don't think you can eliminate it entirely. No matter how solidly it is held or what method you use to run it into the hole, it still might wander. The only sure way is a lead on the tap, or live tooling to cut the threads.
The shaft of the tap? Or the cue? Obviously, if either is off, your threads will be less than perfect.Michael Webb said:
You asked for our thoughts, you are getting them.
So tell us then, How many mis-aligned pins do you see with radials, and how many with allthread?
It's been my experience that the shouldered pins are MUCH more likely to be true. This might be partly because of the price, if a guy is spending 10 times as much for his parts, he is probably a bit more conscientious about his work.
Well this will be the real kicker and I'm sure some will go thru the roof but I actually see with the shoulders and without and I'll tell you why, At the joint, it's fine but a couple inches down the butt when you spin it between centers is off because people think they don't have to spin the cue between centers to zero the pin in the cue, and if it has a shoulder, you can't tap it center anyway if it's installed, (PRESS FIT) I have seen it on all types of pins.
There's a lot of assuming out there.
There's a lot of assuming out there.
Mike, are you saying those cues did not have a pass taken after the pins were installed?Michael Webb said:
thnx
This is the reason my pin is not fully threaded. I does not center on the Thread, it centers on the bored hole, and the threads help hold it in the cueSheldon said:
JoeyInCali said:
The pin is the last thing that goes into the butt, unless you build drop pocket cues, If you build Vee ponted cues, you may not like what happens to the points if that pin is not centered.
Michael Webb said:
I don't quite understand. Are you saying that no matter what, joint pins are always off, and need correcting?
If you do move the pin after it's installed, you can only move one end of it. If the base of the pin is off-center, no amount movement will make it truly straight.
Michael Webb said:
I think most of the cues we see with badly off-center or crooked pins are that way because the cues were cut down AFTER the pins were installed. This is an almost sure-fire way to make sure the pin is off....
I think most cuemakers will agree with us on this point, the pin should go in last.
Sheldon said:
No, I am saying that when all threaded screws are used, You can spin the cue between centers with a dial indicator before the epoxy dry's to make sure it is not only true at the joint but also at the top of the points. If it is not true, when you sand Vee pointed cues you may get run off on the points from sanding. When the shoulder screw is used and it's installed for a snug fit, you can spin it between centers but you can't adjust it unless you leave room for movement.
Sheldon said:
Tap, Tap Sir: