Shy but wants to play

Calling safe, making a ball, and then keep shooting.......what's the point of calling safe? If you're gonna keep shooting, shut up. If you're gonna just give your opponent ball in hand, why not just fire the CB into the pocket? I must be missing something.:confused:
 
the point of calling all your 'defensive' shots , and marking them , is STRICTLY for handicap calculations . Calling 'mark defensive' indicates exactly that , for the scorekeeper to place a mark in the defenses section of the scoresheet .

According to the APA , your "INTENT" is the determining factor as to whether or not a shot is defensive . For example , if you have three balls remaining on the table , one of which is a hanger in a pocket (95% probability shot) which is preventing your opponent from playing into that pocket , and you instead play one of the other two balls (say , for instance , a cross-side bank with a 60% probability) , you have just executed a defensive shot , even if you make the bank shot , because you left the hanger up to DEFEND the pocket .

So that there is no confusion , players with integrity audibly state 'mark defensive' before executing the shot .

Wanna see the teams that are REALLY cheating ? They're the ones that don't mark safeties even after our players audibly state 'mark defensive' . . . .:confused: Guess those extra innings mean too much to them . . .
 
skiergirl55 said:
Calling safe, making a ball, and then keep shooting.......what's the point of calling safe? If you're gonna keep shooting, shut up. If you're gonna just give your opponent ball in hand, why not just fire the CB into the pocket? I must be missing something.:confused:
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My view is when I''m in this situation, and I'm really only trying for a legal hit, I'll say something like "safety" or just "going for the hit". We don't really have to, I do it out of courtesy. And if for some reason a ball slops in, well, there we are. I'm still shooting. I don't recall that ever happening to me, when I was obviously trying for a safety, but I suppose it could happen.

As for giving up ball in-hand rather than firing it into the pocket, it usually only happens when you're shooting on the 8 and have no reasonable shot, thus making any attempt at it subject to the shooter accidentally dropping the cue-ball in the pocket and losing. Occasionally I have given up ball in-hand outside of that scenario, when I don't wish to disturb my opponents balls being jammed up. That would only occur if I was truly stiched and had no reasonable path to even try to hit one of my balls.

Not one of those things that comes up a lot in my world, but it's good to know how to handle it within the rules if it does. I've been known to hit one of my opponents balls into a worse situation rather than give up ball in-hand. At least I'm making something out of giving up the ball. (Shoulda seen the look on one of my opponents faces when i did that last session. Priceless.)
 
ridinda9 said:
For example , if you have three balls remaining on the table , one of which is a hanger in a pocket (95% probability shot) which is preventing your opponent from playing into that pocket , and you instead play one of the other two balls (say , for instance , a cross-side bank with a 60% probability) , you have just executed a defensive shot , even if you make the bank shot , because you left the hanger up to DEFEND the pocket .

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Pool is not chess. Even in chess, you wouldn't miss your turn just to leave the Queen guarding a valuable spot.

What happens if you don't say something? For me, that type of thing is just Strategy. I always let the hanger sit there......eventually it goes in, most times by the opponent. What if you have 2 hangers? That comes up a lot. I let them sit there and shoot other balls.

It just seems false to use something like that to a scoring advantage. I'll try this league once to be fair and get a personal opinion, but it just seems like smoke and mirrors to me so far.
 
skiergirl55 said:
Pool is not chess. Even in chess, you wouldn't miss your turn just to leave the Queen guarding a valuable spot.

What happens if you don't say something? For me, that type of thing is just Strategy. I always let the hanger sit there......eventually it goes in, most times by the opponent. What if you have 2 hangers? That comes up a lot. I let them sit there and shoot other balls.

It just seems false to use something like that to a scoring advantage. I'll try this league once to be fair and get a personal opinion, but it just seems like smoke and mirrors to me so far.
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There's nothing being "used". Again, no one is under any obligation to say "safe" in APA, it's usually just folks being courteous, having played outside of APA where it is customary.

If you hit one of your balls and something hits a rail, you have made a legal hit. If it happens to be a "safety", good. But you don't have to call it a safety for it to be a safety.

Don't overthink it. It's kept simple intentionally. :wink:
 
skiergirl55 said:
It seems simpler just to avoid the whole 'mark defensive' thing. I guess I have a lot to learn.
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Not really much to learn. Marking defensives is the scorekeepers responsibility, not the players. If you wanna say "safe" you can, but you don't have to. No penalty or obligation.

Just go and play.
 
justadub said:
Not really much to learn. Marking defensives is the scorekeepers responsibility, not the players. If you wanna say "safe" you can, but you don't have to. No penalty or obligation.

Just go and play.
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correct . it is just a courtesy extended by players with integrity to the scorekeepers .
It is extremely beneficial to do so when you have experienced players , and novice scorekeepers . The player may be aware that he has played defensively while the scorekeeper is not .:cool:
 
We'll see what happens tonight.

Last nights scores:

Game 1: 1 ball (oooh boy)
Game 2: 7 balls (missed the 8 by an RCH)
Game 3: 3 balls (eh)
Game 4: 3 balls

Worst night in a long time! After league, I stayed and played another couple hours. I was making Fantastic shots. There was a guy there watching the whole night, and he came up to play while I was practicing. I was shooting well by then. He said I have a natural talent for pool, and was giving me pointers. I don't know if I should believe him or not, but I introduced him to my boyfriend and they played a few games, too, so he wasn't trying to hit on me.

I guess I need more practice before league starts each time. Going in cold doesn't help.:o
 
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skiergirl55 said:
Well, I don't know yet. I'll pick it up tomorrow. I'll try to post a picture.

Okay, APA fans.....get out your forks and bibs, time to feast on me. I joined an APA league tonight and the first night is Tuesday. I'm already hatin it.
The team captain said, "What level are you?" I'm a BCA level 6. He said, "Well, we need you to be a 3." He means for me to sandbag.:mad:

This team I'm on has already won first place and is in the City Cup this Spring for a shot at going to Vegas. And he wants me to sandbag now. It just doesn't seem right to me to throw a game to some moron who probably won't shoot as well as me.

WHAT SHOULD I DO, APA FANATICS?
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I would talk to your captain and tell them that you have absolutley no intention of sandbaggin.
They may surprise you and tell you that you misunderstood and that they don't want you sandbagging, that they just hope that you would stay a 3.

If he tells you that you should find another team, then talk to the L.O. and tell him exactly what happened. Any L.O. worth anything wiould be having a chat with the captain plus looking very closely at their handicaps.

As others have said, the rules are pretty similiar except no call pocket.

Just play as well as you can and have fun. Don't worry about the handicaps. Let the skill levels work themselves out.

I would recommend that once you are in and have played 10 matches, try out the singles qualifier program. That will give you an idea as to how you are improveing against some of the better players at your skil level.

Keep and open mind and by all means, Have Fun. That is why you play in the first place. If it is not fun then whats the use in continuing.
Good Luck.

Leagueguy
 
skiergirl55 said:
Well, I don't know yet. I'll pick it up tomorrow. I'll try to post a picture.

Okay, APA fans.....get out your forks and bibs, time to feast on me. I joined an APA league tonight and the first night is Tuesday. I'm already hatin it.
The team captain said, "What level are you?" I'm a BCA level 6. He said, "Well, we need you to be a 3." He means for me to sandbag.:mad:

This team I'm on has already won first place and is in the City Cup this Spring for a shot at going to Vegas. And he wants me to sandbag now. It just doesn't seem right to me to throw a game to some moron who probably won't shoot as well as me.

WHAT SHOULD I DO, APA FANATICS?
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Do not sandbag. Also, I wonder what the rules are for that local league on eligibility for new players in order for them to play in the City Cup. Some won't let new players participate.

One of two things will happen:
#1 You'll play your best and become the handicap you should be and the captain can't play you in the playoffs, but you had fun the entire session
#2 The captain will kick you off the team. Which means, you won't be playing, but you also won't be swallowing your pride and not enjoying it.\

You have an asshat captain. Tell him next time "I'm going to play to the best of my ability. If you don't like it, kick me off the team. I joined this team to play pool and have fun, not to be your SL3."

Brian
 
justadub said:
Not really much to learn. Marking defensives is the scorekeepers responsibility, not the players. If you wanna say "safe" you can, but you don't have to. No penalty or obligation.

Just go and play.
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Exactly! I will sometimes ask my team member shooting "Was that intentional?" when they miss a ball to make sure. But, judging and marking what is defensive is purely a score keeping issue and doesn't need to concern the player.

As to why "calling safe" and pocketing a ball and being able to give up the table isn't an APA rule (as it is in World Standardized/BCAPL/etc) is fairly easy to explain for 2 reasons. Lower ranked players don't understand it well and calling/not-calling it and making sure the other player recognizes it is a source for lots of arguments. The same reason why APA has you mark your pocket on the 8-Ball. It removes any argument about what you called. Remember, APA is a bar league. Lot's of drunk people playing. By removing the argument of "I called safe, you just didn't hear me" between a couple of drunks is a big win IMHO.

Brian
 
Well, it was interesting. I did my best, and lost one game to an SL 3, and she won the match. She needed 2 to win, I needed 3. I should have won all 4 games, she wasn't a good shooter at all. Nerves, I suppose, with 15 pair of eyes all watching the match and the new kid.

They need 5 people to play every night, and there is a 7, (4) SL/5's, a 4, and me. They can't add up to over 23. That means I have to play every week. If I get better..........well, then what?

It's too insane. Who picked the magical number 23, and how unreasonable is that? Gripe and groan, gripe and groan.
 
Well , now that I've seen the structure of your team , it turns out that your captain was mistaken - he didn't need an s/l3 , he NEEDED an s/l2 .
WHY ?
b/c his s/l 7 is effectively neutralized.

adding your lowest four s/ls ( 3+4+5+5 ) and trying to play the s/l7 , you'd break 23 (3+4+5+5+7=24)

The only way that s/l7 picks up a cue again is if you drop to s/l2 . Of course , they do still have room for ANOTHER low s/l , assuming they can find one with an established handicap .
If they start ANOTHER new player , it really locks them down hard this session - you have to play at least 10 matches this session to get qualified , and another new player would have to play 10 times also . That uses up 20 of the available 70 matches in a 14 week session - a huge chunk . But it would be worthwhile from an LTC outlook .

Right now , your top roster is 5/5/5/5/3 . That's hard , but not impossible to beat . You concentrate on beating the s/l3 and two of the s/l5's .
If you improve to an s/l4 , your available top roster becomes 5/5/5/4/4 , and you still get to play . More of your "top level" talent has been neutalized , tho . . .
Still , the team isn't NEAR being forced to split , yet . There is room for that other low s/l , and that would let the s/l 7 back in .

As far as you having to play every week , I mentioned that in my previous post - you'd have to play nearly every week just to get qualified , team roster notwithstanding .

Oh , and you're right , pool isn't chess . It's much more difficult , because in addition to knowledge of strategy and positions , you must have the physical skills to EXECUTE those strategies !
Before the mods removed it for me , I used to have a signature line that was slightly politically incorrect . With the word 'Chinese' substituted for a derogatory term used for slaves that begins with 'N' , it appears below :
If playing defense is 'Chinese' pool , then Chess must be 'Chinese' checkers . . . . .:cool:
 
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skiergirl55 said:
Well, it was interesting. I did my best, and lost one game to an SL 3, and she won the match. She needed 2 to win, I needed 3. I should have won all 4 games, she wasn't a good shooter at all. Nerves, I suppose, with 15 pair of eyes all watching the match and the new kid.

They need 5 people to play every night, and there is a 7, (4) SL/5's, a 4, and me. They can't add up to over 23. That means I have to play every week. If I get better..........well, then what?

It's too insane. Who picked the magical number 23, and how unreasonable is that? Gripe and groan, gripe and groan.
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Yeah, your roster is too top-heavy on the handicaps. You'll need another 3, or better yet a 2 to be able to play different combination's of players, not even accounting for the 7, as rinda said. A brand new lady player often goes from the three that the start as down to a 2 within a few weeks, until they learn how to play. Same with the brand new male players, from a 4 to a 3 rather quickly as well.

I have no idea where the number 23 came from, but I assume it's designed to make sure teams have a few lower level players on them. And yes, that's best done by recruiting "new" players. I don't think that's a secret. Still, there are plenty of people around here that have no intention of really working at their game, and stay 3's/4's for some time. I expect that is the case where you are, too. They just wanna go out and have some fun.
 
Been a coupla days, I'm moving, so things are chaotic.

Mondays BCA was the worst EVER. I was so stiff from packing and hauling, with the big stuff going on this weekend, I couldn't even lean over. Age is a *****.

Mondays games:
Game 1: 1 ball
Game 2: 3 balls
Game 3: 2 balls
Game 4: 2 balls

Total of EIGHT. OMG, what a stinker! We played the first place team, and they're break and run mostly, so I was lucky to get any on the ones I didn't break.

However, Tuesday night's APA was different. I rested up a little bit, and got there early to practice at a bar I've never been to before. WHAT A DIVE. You had to battle the cucaracha's for toilet paper, ya know?

And what a surprise to walk in and see we're playing on Global coin operated 9 foot tables! 50 cents!!!!!! HOLY CRAP! I suck on the 9 footers, but I had 90 minutes to practice.

Ya'll were right: I went down to a 2. They put me up against a 4 so he had to win 4 games to my 2. He put the 8 in on his third shot (he broke), so I won one. One more to go. He then won the next 3 games, but I only had one or two balls on the table. Almost won the 4th game, missed the 8.

Then on the last game, it was winner take all. It would be his 4th game won and my 2nd. He must have been nervous because he missed several shots (so did I), but I had to give him ball in hand when I missed with one ball on the table I had to kick at (I need to learn to masse!). I won the game when he missed on his ball in hand (it happens to us all), I got ball in hand and made the last 2 shots easily.
:grin:

Feels good to win something.:o

I'm going to Lincoln City, OR for the BCA Regional Championships in March. What the hell. I'm entered in Women's Senior Singles. How much competition can there be? I know, out of my league, but I want the experience. I want to see how I shoot under some real pressure. I think I'll be A OK. Butterflies have never been a problem since I used the 9 as a cue ball in my first tournament. :yeah:
 
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Hey that's cool, going to a big tournament. I wish you luck. I bet you'll do just fine.

I cannot imagine moving ever again, with all the crap we've accumulated at our house. Let alone trying to play at any sort of reasonable level after spending some time doing the moving. Oh well, look at it this way, next week you should be rockin'!
 
Now that I know where to go to play on a 9 footer for the same price as a barbox, I'm so there! I never would have gone into a place like this, ever. A seedy dive next to the Deja Vu strip club? Yuck. But their tables are NICE and they have 4 of them.

Baffling!
 
WBCA Lincoln City

Good to here that you are going to Lincoln City. I have been going with the bunch out of Spokane for the past 5 years it is a kick.
I don't believe I have seen you at Black Diamond as of yet. I play out of there on Tuesday BCA and Thursday Valley league. Who's team do you play on? Anyway it is good that you have found locations to play at the Bronco is OK for 9 footers but if you talk to Stevehe moght cut you a deal on table time. See you in Lincoln City.
 
Steve won't cut me a deal on anything. I asked once, and he said, "I'm not a charity!" :confused: tee hee

I played on the BCA summer league. I've got my own team on Monday nights now.
 
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