Simonis 860HR, GC 4.5(whatever that is), And a Few other thoughts...Long but good!!!

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
THIS IS A GREAT POST PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO READ IT, THANK YOU-ERIC P

One of the cool things about pool for me and I'm sure alot of us is learning about new things. And Doing new things, so I am with a table.

About 10 months ago I had a Diamond table installed by none other than RKC-Glen-o ;) . I would bet that table got more hours of play than any other home Pro-Am Diamond box that Glen set up this year, It really had alot of hours played on it, perhaps only 30% by me. The Tournment Blue cloth Greg Sullivan invented that color of showed a good bit of wear(I really love that blue), The rest of the table looks new. I really enjoyed that table and will use it again for action challenges with TAR in a few months(more on that later). I just wanted to switch back to a GC for a while, I'm sure I will install a Diamond table again, I recommend them to anyone. But varity is the spice of life. I switched back to green just for a while, the balls definatly look better on the blue Greg devloped.


A while back I made a poll asking what GC I should install, I ended up putting in a GC4 I bought new from the BCA trade show in 99 or 2000, I think 2000, It looks brand new-but It got alot of play the 6 or years I had it up, but not the use the Diamond got this pat year.

The pockets are a bit big 4 11/16" is my guess, 2 balls + 3/16" just eye-balling it. So later on I'm going to put GC5 rails, skirts, pocket castings, and drop pockets on it with 4 3/16" pockets when Mark Gregory is done with them(its going to be a Mark Gregory/RKC, joint project) and since Ernsto/Oscar are my friend's too, I will have them do something, all 4 top guys(East & West Coast) working on my table-to me thats cool as they are all very very good friends-in no particular order I think the world of each of them equally. It will be a GC 4.5 for lack of a better name (pretty cool/fun name, I think :) ). The frame and legs are from my GC4 the rest a GC5, but I dont have the leveling system the GC5 has. Glen-o has that table so level tonight it hurt, I couldnt get one funny roll anywhere, and believe me I tried. One great box 4 great masters of their trade...WOW, now If I could only play good, I'm working on that like never before! For me this is a collaberation of people who I respect and care about all comming together for a common cause the "GC4.5 Fatboy Limited Edition".<----I might be onto something here ;). The conversion to the GC4.5 will hapen after the holidays, probably after the Derby.


Think Fatboy isnt happy???? I'm very blessed and thank my mom and dad for raising me the way they did-or I wouldnt be like I am. I do miss them-Az is like my family(I only have one surviving relitative and the best girl in the world) in many ways-and I appericate each one of you, this aint about $$$, its about something much more important and very special and I'm proud to share it with my friends here, and please look me up when your in Vegas to come enjoy the table that the best in their trade built!!! I have had about 20 AZers over this past 10 months. I hope 100 this year comming up!! When the Fatboy Jamboree comes to life!! More importantly, if you cant share what you have, why own it??? But at the same time not be a mark/sucker either


I dont know how I'm going to get the B-Wick GC-5 parts and build the GC 4.5 someday :grin: , Then I will and have the triple nuts for a GC table, but again its no better than a Diamond just different, and in todays world any person who is serious about pool better be ready to play on ither table, Alot of rooms are switching out old beat up GC's and the GC5's cost too much compaired to a diamond for commerical upgrades considering how bad biz is, Diamond is the future for sure!


The 860HR cloth is a very interesting cloth to say the least, thats what RKC put on, I put a link to it here in this post. It is tough as nails. I broke with the butt jacked up on purpose to dig the CB inth the cloth to leace a mark, it took 3 times in the exact spot to get a tiny white mark, I licked my finger and wiped most of it away in 10 seconds. It really reduces ball marks-thats for sure. Simonis touts the 860HR as their strongest cloth, I believe them-It just feels like its very durable(You have to se it pulled tight/installed to fully appericate it), I played a race to 9 8-ball tonight, I played horrible, worst I hit the balls in months, that besids the point, the CB wasnt all squirly like it is on new regular 860, where the english takes a while to grab and you can make some Sehmeih Sanger(SP?) looking big power english shots, It played almost like broke in 860 not new sippery 860. Simonis site says its bit faster than regular 860, perhaps time will tell, but for new cloth-I HAVE NEVER SEEN BETTER!!! I will report in a few weeks

http://www.simoniscloth.com/weave.htm#860

I do know my Tournment Blue 860 was skidding 2-3 shots in each game of one pocket and the CB jumping 1/4" on soft 50% cut shots once an hour to the point you could see light under the CB, it was fast as 760 by the time we took it out. Perhaps it ws just worn out.

I hope you enjoyed this long post I enjoyed writing it, I'm still working on my writing skills. And yes I'm still a REP whore.:grin:

sincerly
eric
 
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Sounds like quite a project. I hope it turns out as you hope. You have assembled the dream team of table mechanics. Wish I could get one them to set up a table of mine someday.

Gotta love the Simonis, bar none the best billiard cloth.

Your spelling and grammer has greatly improved BTW.

Hopefully may be if I make it to Vegas for APA Nationals, I'll look ya up.

Have fun with the table.

-Kyle
 
YaktyYak said:
Sounds like quite a project. I hope it turns out as you hope. You have assembled the dream team of table mechanics. Wish I could get one them to set up a table of mine someday.

Gotta love the Simonis, bar none the best billiard cloth.

Your spelling and grammer has greatly improved BTW.

Hopefully may be if I make it to Vegas for APA Nationals, I'll look ya up.

Have fun with the table.

-Kyle

thanks, spelling is just luck, when i put effort into a post my grammer is ok, I'm very well spoken, Just lazy when I post. I have really put alot of effort into my writing skills the past 3 years and I am seeing some improvments-very slowly, i'm a numbers guy; words, art and colors are difficult for me. I think its a right/left brain thing. Thanks.:) :)

I hadnt thought of it in those terms but I do have the "Dream Team" of billiard tech's. They are all great friends so this is very special for me and I hope others come enjoy it, please look me up here when ever your in Vegas.

sincerly,

eric
 
Fatboy said:
THIS IS A GREAT POST PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO READ IT, THANK YOU-ERIC P

One of the cool things about pool for me and I'm sure alot of us is learning about new things. And Doing new things, so I am with a table.

About 10 months ago I had a Diamond table installed by none other than RKC-Glen-o ;) . I would bet that table got more hours of play than any other home Pro-Am Diamond box that Glen set up this year, It really had alot of hours played on it, perhaps only 30% by me. The Tournment Blue cloth Greg Sullivan invented that color of showed a good bit of wear(I really love that blue), The rest of the table looks new. I really enjoyed that table and will use it again for action challenges with TAR in a few months(more on that later). I just wanted to switch back to a GC for a while, I'm sure I will install a Diamond table again, I recommend them to anyone. But varity is the spice of life. I switched back to green just for a while, the balls definatly look better on the blue Greg devloped.


A while back I made a poll asking what GC I should install, I ended up putting in a GC4 I bought new from the BCA trade show in 99 or 2000, I think 2000, It looks brand new-but It got alot of play the 6 or years I had it up, but not the use the Diamond got this pat year.

The pockets are a bit big 4 11/16" is my guess, 2 balls + 3/16" just eye-balling it. So later on I'm going to put GC5 rails, skirts, pocket castings, and drop pockets on it with 4 3/16" pockets when Mark Gregory is done with them(its going to be a Mark Gregory/RKC, joint project) and since Ernsto/Oscar are my friend's too, I will have them do something, all 4 top guys(East & West Coast) working on my table-to me thats cool as they are all very very good friends-in no particular order I think the world of each of them equally. It will be a GC 4.5 for lack of a better name (pretty cool/fun name, I think :) ). The frame and legs are from my GC4 the rest a GC5, but I dont have the leveling system the GC5 has. Glen-o has that table so level tonight it hurt, I couldnt get one funny roll anywhere, and believe me I tried. One great box 4 great masters of their trade...WOW, now If I could only play good, I'm working on that like never before! For me this is a collaberation of people who I respect and care about all comming together for a common cause the "GC4.5 Fatboy Limited Edition".<----I might be onto something here ;). The conversion to the GC4.5 will hapen after the holidays, probably after the Derby.


Think Fatboy isnt happy???? I'm very blessed and thank my mom and dad for raising me the way they did-or I wouldnt be like I am. I do miss them-Az is like my family(I only have one surviving relitative and the best girl in the world) in many ways-and I appericate each one of you, this aint about $$$, its about something much more important and very special and I'm proud to share it with my friends here, and please look me up when your in Vegas to come enjoy the table that the best in their trade built!!! I have had about 20 AZers over this past 10 months. I hope 100 this year comming up!! When the Fatboy Jamboree comes to life!! More importantly, if you cant share what you have, why own it??? But at the same time not be a mark/sucker either


I dont know how I'm going to get the B-Wick GC-5 parts and build the GC 4.5 someday :grin: , Then I will and have the triple nuts for a GC table, but again its no better than a Diamond just different, and in todays world any person who is serious about pool better be ready to play on ither table, Alot of rooms are switching out old beat up GC's and the GC5's cost too much compaired to a diamond for commerical upgrades considering how bad biz is, Diamond is the future for sure!


The 860HR cloth is a very interesting cloth to say the least, thats what RKC put on, I put a link to it here in this post. It is tough as nails. I broke with the butt jacked up on purpose to dig the CB inth the cloth to leace a mark, it took 3 times in the exact spot to get a tiny white mark, I licked my finger and wiped most of it away in 10 seconds. It really reduces ball marks-thats for sure. Simonis touts the 860HR as their strongest cloth, I believe them-It just feels like its very durable(You have to se it pulled tight/installed to fully appericate it), I played a race to 9 8-ball tonight, I played horrible, worst I hit the balls in months, that besids the point, the CB wasnt all squirly like it is on new regular 860, where the english takes a while to grab and you can make some Sehmeih Sanger(SP?) looking big power english shots, It played almost like broke in 860 not new sippery 860. Simonis site says its bit faster than regular 860, perhaps time will tell, but for new cloth-I HAVE NEVER SEEN BETTER!!! I will report in a few weeks

http://www.simoniscloth.com/weave.htm#860

I do know my Tournment Blue 860 was skidding 2-3 shots in each game of one pocket and the CB jumping 1/4" on soft 50% cut shots once an hour to the point you could see light under the CB, it was fast as 760 by the time we took it out. Perhaps it ws just worn out.

I hope you enjoyed this long post I enjoyed writing it, I'm still working on my writing skills. And yes I'm still a REP whore.:grin:

sincerly
eric
Eric,

This is a great post with a lot of feeling for your friends on AZ. I've made some good friends here on this site also and I enjoy checking it out daily if possible.

Diamond and Gold Crown tables are the best and you may be on to something with your Gold Crown 4.5 and I enjoyed reading about the new Simonis cloth.

If I ever get back to LV i'd love to stop by and visit and maybe we could play a few games......

James
 
I know there have been some posts on 860HR, but is the general consensus about 860HR as positive as Fatboy and 9 on the Snap?
 
Nutz

CTYankee said:
I know there have been some posts on 860HR, but is the general consensus about 860HR as positive as Fatboy and 9 on the Snap?

I've had it on mine for about 4 months. I love it!!!

Like Fatboy said, you can masse a ball with ease. It doesn't skid much. The ball scuffs are still there, but not nearly as pronounced. The dye formula has been changed to resist fading too!!

To coin a buddy of mine.....It's the triple nutz!!!:thumbup:

Ray
 
metallicane said:
Nice post. I have been considering the 860HR for my Kim Steel table and I think I will do it.

I just had Tournament Blue 860HR on my home table. I love it! Best cloth I have ever played on. The balls dont skid and english grab so good on this cloth. You cant go wrong with 860HR.
 
I always thought that the green would be the only cloth for me, but that blue is awesome. More and more rooms are going with is. It almost seem to give off its owm light! Tell Mark Matt said hi, I worked with him for a little while, and learned more bsing with him while hanging with him about how to play than in probably a year before, hanging with some really good players. Although Mark is the best mechanic I know, it is kind of sad to see him not playing. That guy had the best fundamentals of any player I had ever seen, and almost never made a mental mistake. He mighta missed a ball every now and then, but it wasn't going to be cause he put himself in too many bad spots. Congrats on the table, if those guys all chip in, I would hazard a guess it will be the best playing table out there:thumbup: .
 
+++++++++++++Update #1 +++++++++++++

This is my first update on the GC-4 and the HR860:

I measured the opeinings of the pockets, right at the points on the corners they are 4.65" I think, close enough for my comments now its 4am, I will post exact in my next update. I was playing horrible when I got back from KC as I didnt play there much or the 2 weeks before, I took a break and my foot needed to heal.

So the first session I couldnt beat the 6-ball goahst(when I play bad , I really play bad) normally I beat it 4-5 times in a row lose 1 or 2 and put 4 or 5 more wins on it. I played an hour and it was a long hour playing that bad, especially on new cloth/big pockets etc. I really suck when I dont practice, I played a friend a race to 9 8Ball and lost 9-3 I was sleepy.

Day2 I play my same friend a C- to C player a 6 hour session, I beat him 9-2 8Ball and 9-1 next set, I caught a bit of a gear and wasnt tired, then I helped him with his game, we played 1P, and a set of 9Ball he beat me 5-1(I was tired) I cant play tired.

Day 3 I play same friend race to 9 9Ball and win 9-1 and race to 9 8Ball and win 9-3(i gave him 2 games) I wasnt tired so he has no shot, worked on his game, last set he won 5-1 8Ball(I was tired) see the pattern??? my game drops 5 balls or more instantly when i get tired(that has cost me alot of $$$ n the past) now I limit my time or I dont bet.

Enough of the play by play, Lets talk about whats really important; we have about 11 to 12 maybe 13 hours on the table, we brushed it lightly-no vaccume etc, just brush after 6 or 7 hours of play, what I have noticed is the HR dosent play like new cloth it plays like broke in cloth to a extent, it is a bit faster than regular 860, but it isnt slowing down, the balls never slide into the pokets when the OB hits a pocket facing(like new slipery cloth), the balls are spitting out like normal GC pockets-I have owned this box since 2000 so I know the table. I have had only ONE ball kickor skid on me, It was a 70 degree cut into the side hole and the ball slid and didnt cut, only one time in well over 12 hours playing all different games and for compairson the 860 on the Diamond we took out we averaged 1-2 skids/kicks per game of 1P. I have never seen new cloth play this good/consistant/nothing funny for being new, It will be interesting how it changes over the first 100 hours, I will keep track best I can. I'm very happy with the cloth. I have no complaints at all.


I did play good tonight, A big part of it was the larger pockets, its kinda more fun to play on them because its alot easier to run out, I ran a couple racks of 9B and alot of racks of 8B. In spots I did play like a A player, I kept a real short leash on the CB and got where I needed to better than I have in along time, I base that statment not on how many racks I got out on as the pockets explaine that but rather my CB control, I hope I can keep that up for a while, sometimes it goes away, but playing like that sure makes it easy to want to play more-no wonder SVB plays so much. :)


And in other news I'm setting the Diamond back up in another room in my house near a bar in a large living room for the bangers who come over, they arnt allowed in "Fatboys mister". It will be recovered in HR as well.


I'm kinda on the fence with the big pockets they are fun, they arnt 5" buckets or 4" nightmares, I will take a pic, I do believe I will build the worlds first GC4.5 (at least I think it is )

more later-after another 10-12 hours of play, about 2 days. I'm getting ready for Lenny, thats why I skipped Reno I gotta get instroke before Christmas.


thanks for reading hope it was interesting, I'm still practicing my writing, but at 415am it might be so-so.
 
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muttley76 said:
I always thought that the green would be the only cloth for me, but that blue is awesome. More and more rooms are going with is. It almost seem to give off its owm light! Tell Mark Matt said hi, I worked with him for a little while, and learned more bsing with him while hanging with him about how to play than in probably a year before, hanging with some really good players. Although Mark is the best mechanic I know, it is kind of sad to see him not playing. That guy had the best fundamentals of any player I had ever seen, and almost never made a mental mistake. He mighta missed a ball every now and then, but it wasn't going to be cause he put himself in too many bad spots. Congrats on the table, if those guys all chip in, I would hazard a guess it will be the best playing table out there:thumbup: .

thanks man, Mark reads here some, and yes he can play!! wow, he is great for sure I really like him, I met him at JA's house about a year ago. the idea for the 4.5 was his-not my idea, i just named it that, Glen has that table so level I havent seen one ball roll off, not one time, nothing and believe me i notice that chit fast, if pool rooms had 4.5" pockets i wouldnt change the rails I think they are perfect, hard but not to hard, i think its more fun to play on a med easy table, not 5" thats just too easy, but 4" pockets are dumb-I'd rather play snooker.

best and thanks again

eric
 
I'm glad you like your table and the HR cloth. I look forward to being able to come out there and playing some. Nothing like whipping a man on his own table.:grin:

I am probably in the minority because I am not the biggest fan of the HR. When Glen set my table up with it it played kinda like regular Simonis for the first few sessions but after a few hours and a couple of cleanings it seems like the cloth is "way" grabby. Like everyone has said, the english takes very quickly and it is tough to adjust to after playing on cloth that will allow a little slide before it takes. I have to make a conscious effort to compensate for the english, but it has helped me stay toward the center of the cueball. Like FB said, the balls do not just "slide in" like on regular new cloth. They did for a couple of days but that went away quickly.

It is a good product but for me I prefer the way the regular Simonis plays.
 
Ktown D said:
I'm glad you like your table and the HR cloth. I look forward to being able to come out there and playing some. Nothing like whipping a man on his own table.:grin:

I am probably in the minority because I am not the biggest fan of the HR. When Glen set my table up with it it played kinda like regular Simonis for the first few sessions but after a few hours and a couple of cleanings it seems like the cloth is "way" grabby. Like everyone has said, the english takes very quickly and it is tough to adjust to after playing on cloth that will allow a little slide before it takes. I have to make a conscious effort to compensate for the english, but it has helped me stay toward the center of the cueball. Like FB said, the balls do not just "slide in" like on regular new cloth. They did for a couple of days but that went away quickly.

It is a good product but for me I prefer the way the regular Simonis plays.


interesting, the english does take very good like on banks you can throw the OB alot right now it seems about right but it only has abut 12 hours play on it, i'm going to keep track and make sure I'm playing on the box all the time its being used for the next couple weeks and report here what changes, I can see it becomming more grabby, but compaired to what I had any cloth is grabby, we had balls slidig everywhere. I might use regular 860 when I set the Diamond up again in a week or 2-when Gleno gets back to town, how the heck he moves tables alone is beyond me, man he is strong.
 
Dear Fatboy, :wink:

I would love to see some pics of your RKC installed GCIV.

He is about 2 weeks (seriously...and no comments about Springtime in CO :eek: , Ray...please!) away from setting my IV up in Colorado. So please post some pics to keep a jones'n' brother going!

Fred
 
fd_colorado said:
Dear Fatboy, :wink:

I would love to see some pics of your RKC installed GCIV.

He is about 2 weeks (seriously...and no comments about Springtime in CO :eek: , Ray...please!) away from setting my IV up in Colorado. So please post some pics to keep a jones'n' brother going!

Fred

hi Fred,


I dont have a camera right now(hard to believe but true), I wish i did, I would love to show you, they way he does the pockets is just amazing, it plays great, I played an hour today is all-I will play 5 or 6 more later tonight. The HR is still playing good-I like it, I hope it dosent change too much. I have owned this table since it was new, it still looks new, It got a fair bit of play the 7 years I had it uo but not full time play like now. Ernesto set it up last time.


In my pool room ( a converted bedroom with its own bathroom) I had 2 built in bars installed today(one wet, one dry)-I ordered them 2 months ago, I still need shelves on them and a sink, they will be finished mid-jan then I will get pics of them, the box and the room, its a great set up, it came out MUCH better than I ever imagined. I do have a small refrigator in there now, I dont need a freezer cause in the kitchen I have a huge ice machine, so no Ice issues. I dont drink much and never when I play but I will put a couple bottles of something to look good on the shelfs, and LOTS of candy bars, I like to eat bannanas when I play they really seem to help me play better.
 
No booze coupled with a serious banana habit, and you will no longer be allowed to go by the name Fatboy... call you the artist formerly known as Fatboy :)
 
Fatboy said:
hi Fred,


I dont have a camera right now(hard to believe but true), I wish i did, I would love to show you, they way he does the pockets is just amazing, it plays great, I played an hour today is all-I will play 5 or 6 more later tonight. The HR is still playing good-I like it, I hope it dosent change too much. I have owned this table since it was new, it still looks new, It got a fair bit of play the 7 years I had it uo but not full time play like now. Ernesto set it up last time.


In my pool room ( a converted bedroom with its own bathroom) I had 2 built in bars installed today(one wet, one dry)-I ordered them 2 months ago, I still need shelves on them and a sink, they will be finished mid-jan then I will get pics of them, the box and the room, its a great set up, it came out MUCH better than I ever imagined. I do have a small refrigator in there now, I dont need a freezer cause in the kitchen I have a huge ice machine, so no Ice issues. I dont drink much and never when I play but I will put a couple bottles of something to look good on the shelfs, and LOTS of candy bars, I like to eat bannanas when I play they really seem to help me play better.

Thanks Eric. Can't wait to see your finished room.

My living room remodel is costing about 4x my original target price, but it is turning out much better than I thought too. Once I got going, however, I certainly didn't want to pull the rug out from under the workers that were counting on my job.

So maybe we can start a thread of "Room Conversions Done Right" It could serve the dual purpose of keeping America employed and something to show the wives how nice a pool room oriented remodel will leave their extra bedroom (if they have an extra 17'x 21' bedroom) or living room looking.

BTW, Just wondering if the GC V parts are available and how much the parts would cost. Also, are you considering changing the rails to black (I don't even know if black is an option on the 5)?
 
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