Simonis 860HR slide

[Poolmanis]

I repeat again, for the third time. Both club tables and my own were recovered at roughly the same time. In fact, the club tables were recovered maybe a week earlier, and get more playtime, so the slide should be worse on my table, not on the club tables.

Try pressing your palm and finger tips to cloth firmly and push sideways both places. It will tell you how tight it is streched. If there is real difference you will notice it. Try it same day so different weather is not affecting results. Also rail cloth tightness can be tested by pressing it slightly and moving sideways.

 

[The_JV]

You think they might have overstretched the cloth at the U.S. Open?

I'd have to agree that this is a possibility. I don't know and would have had no way of telling. I do know that the tables played surprisingly slow, for typical diamond standard.

 

[Poolmanis]

I'd have to agree that this is a possibility. I don't know and would have had no way of telling. I do know that the tables played surprisingly slow, for typical diamond standard.

They normally don't stretch cloth for tournaments so tight as normally

 

[iusedtoberich]

How could tighter cloth make tables play slower? If it’s tighter that means it’s thinner and should be faster. Plus the US Open tables were Diamond Pro-Am 1 piece slate, which all have the cloth applied at the factory. They should be stretched very consistently and use the stretch index from Glen.

Cloth installed on site in Germany who knows…

Shortbus: did you get a 1 piece slate Pro-Am? Was the cloth on from the factory? Or did you get a 3 piece slate that was assembled on site in your house, including the cloth?

 

[The_JV]

Overstretching Simonis I never heard as possible. Only understretching. You can see some of the mechanics use vise grips and pull with their body weight.

It's been a decent amount of time since I did my table, but the method was to pull the cloth to max (vise grip & body weight). Mark it at the edge of the slate and then back it off to some measurement. That measurement is your stretch index. So yes you could 'overstretch' according to Simonis.

 

[Sheldon]

pull the cloth to max (vise grip & body weight). Mark it at the edge of the slate and then back it off to some measurement. That measurement is your stretch index. So yes you could 'overstretch' according to Simonis.

The index is to make sure the stretch is balanced. If you pull the side too tight, you'll never get the ends to the same amount. Not everyone's max stretch will be the same.

 

[The_JV]

The index is to make sure the stretch is balanced. If you pull the side too tight, you'll never get the ends to the same amount. Not everyone's max stretch will be the same.

My memory isn't the best. However I thought there was an "ideal" index number to use. ...not an arbitrary one. So wouldn't going well beyond the 'ideal' value would be over stretching...?

I'd have to either watch the DVDs again, or maybe find the notes I took to find that suggested "ideal number". I don't care enough to do either, so I'm willing to accept I'm just wrong...lol.

 

[Sheldon]

Glen taught me it's more important for the stretch to be even and consistent. A large strong person will be able to stretch the cloth tighter than someone smaller and lighter.
I believe some people back it off a bit more from maximum to make it easier to apply the cloth, especially when it comes to closing off the pockets.
Simonis cloth is very consistent, so once you find your ideal stretch, it can be used over and over.

 

[Poolmanis]

My memory isn't the best. However I thought there was an "ideal" index number to use. ...not an arbitrary one. So wouldn't going well beyond the 'ideal' value would be over stretching...?

I'd have to either watch the DVDs again, or maybe find the notes I took to find that suggested "ideal number". I don't care enough to do either, so I'm willing to accept I'm just wrong...lol.

Glen have video about topic on hes Youtube channel. Over stretching is that you go over index and you can´t be even anymore. Then you get "shadows" and strings can´t be straight anymore. So stronger and more skilled people can have tighter index because they can pull cloth more and still get it even.

 

[ShortBusRuss]

So.. As my table has become more worn, the speed/slide difference between my Diamond Pro/Am (in super wet wine country) and the club Gold Crowns is becoming more pronounced.. I have confirmed that the table was installed with 860, while the club tables have 860HR. I went over to another club member's house who has 860HR on his home table during the holidays in December, and hit a few balls on his tables, and I was amazed out how well his table plays compared to mine...

The "results" of this were that, unless I was showing up 1.5 hours early to league matches, I was struggling to control my cue ball, often ending up 2-3 feet out of position, with most of this being due to slide. Now.. I haven't been actively competing outside of the German league, so I think this is a matter of just not being all that in tune with the need to pay close attention to slide and rail grab when applying spin, so I just fell into the habit of trying to play as I do at home, not getting great results, and then just hitting more balls until things "clicked", but not necessarily applying much analysis to what the ball is doing differently, and why.

All things being considered, I have decided to just go ahead and recloth the table with 860HR, ASAP. I think it is easier to "adjust down" to a table that plays slower, than to try to adjust from a stroke built around having to "slug" the CB around the table, to a more finesse stroke under competition conditions.

So, an interesting side note on this... German tables tend to be older Gold Crowns, where they have tightened the pockets by putting hard pocket facings on them, instead of extending the subrail.. This has very specific influence on how one plays.. If you stroke a ball firmly into the pocket facing, it is pretty easy to have a ball get rejected from the pocket... Many clubs put on 860HR to somewhat compensate for this, as you can hit the balls softer and still get where you need to get, reducing the tendency for the pockets to reject a well struck hit.. The issues I have been having are playing on 860 at home, in wine country where humidity in the dead of winter is still over 50%, is that the table soaks up water due to high wool content, requiring me to power the ball more, and get thinner on most cut shots.... Which does NOT work when you switch over to the club tables without a little warm up time.. In this situation, one would tend to want to get a hair fuller on the balls, and instead of relying on natural stun angles, one might have to add a hair of draw to "normalize" the tangent line... If you play to get thinner on balls, the effectiveness of that strategy is not as good.

On a Diamond Pro/Am with 4 1/8" pockets... Needing to power the ball around the table and get thinner on must cut shots, is not gonna make things any easier..

Yup.. Definitely time to switch to 860HR. Been chatting with realkingcobra, and he agrees, based on the general wetness of my table, even when running a dehumidifier.