Simple solution for pattern racking

[Magyar19]

Bobby Fischer, many say the greatest chess player to ever live, grew tired of chess games prearranged openings. As long as all the pieces were in the same spot to start the game, many of the correct opening moves could be made from simple memorization. He came up with the idea of what he called Fischer Random (now called Chess960), rearranging the pieces starting positions by pulling cards, coins, computer program, etc.

What I propose is something inspired by that and quite frankly I'm surprised it hasn't been implemented yet, at least that I know of. Before the match, figure out some way, whether it by cards, coins, computer, to randomly rack the balls. I half expect to get flamed for this but I'd like to hear opinions.

 

[hang-the-9]

Bobby Fischer, many say the greatest chess player to ever live, grew tired of chess games prearranged openings. As long as all the pieces were in the same spot to start the game, many of the correct opening moves could be made from simple memorization. He came up with the idea of what he called Fischer Random (now called Chess960), rearranging the pieces starting positions by pulling cards, coins, computer program, etc.

What I propose is something inspired by that and quite frankly I'm surprised it hasn't been implemented yet, at least that I know of. Before the match, figure out some way, whether it by cards, coins, computer, to randomly rack the balls. I half expect to get flamed for this but I'd like to hear opinions.

You would have to do this before each rack not each match. Would be easier to just watch how the person racks, if they are moving balls around in positions instead of just tossing them in the rack, I'd get a notion they are not being as random as they should.

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Bobby Fischer, many say the greatest chess player to ever live, grew tired of chess games prearranged openings. As long as all the pieces were in the same spot to start the game, many of the correct opening moves could be made from simple memorization. He came up with the idea of what he called Fischer Random (now called Chess960), rearranging the pieces starting positions by pulling cards, coins, computer program, etc.

What I propose is something inspired by that and quite frankly I'm surprised it hasn't been implemented yet, at least that I know of. Before the match, figure out some way, whether it by cards, coins, computer, to randomly rack the balls. I half expect to get flamed for this but I'd like to hear opinions.

My solution is simpler. I simply don't care. I think at the amateur level, no one plays good enough to make pattern racking an issue. I think maybe once you get above 700 fargo or so, it starts to become important. Though still there are many players above that level who don't have a ton of break strategy and blast things all over anyway. It really only seems to be an issue with solid pros. I've literally heard D players complaining about pattern racking. It just sounds ludicrous to me.

I actually break 9 ball very well, certainly above my overall skill level. I have a very specific pattern that I like for no reason other than OCD. I've tried pattern racking and random racking vs the ghost, and see absolutely no difference in my performance. Its really far more important to rack consistently tight and use a good speed to make the wing ball and spread out the rest nicely. When using a template rack, the importance of the pattern may extend a bit lower on the fargo scale, say down to maybe 600 or so. If you're not making a ball and getting shape on the one, any pattern "advantage" is immediately transferred to your opponent anyway...and that is a huge if for many.

KMRUNOUT

 

[Bob Jewett]

Bobby Fischer, many say the greatest chess player to ever live, grew tired of chess games prearranged openings. As long as all the pieces were in the same spot to start the game, many of the correct opening moves could be made from simple memorization. He came up with the idea of what he called Fischer Random (now called Chess960), rearranging the pieces starting positions by pulling cards, coins, computer program, etc.

What I propose is something inspired by that and quite frankly I'm surprised it hasn't been implemented yet, at least that I know of. Before the match, figure out some way, whether it by cards, coins, computer, to randomly rack the balls. I half expect to get flamed for this but I'd like to hear opinions.

Such a solution has already been proposed: print out drawings of the (random) racks. Each player has to break from the patterns in order -- fifth rack for each is the same rack, for example.

 

[AtLarge]

A rack that meets the various rules for random racking can be easily achieved without using cards, coins, computers, printouts, etc. For example, Paul Schofield of Gold Crown Billiards in Erie, PA has been successfully using his "Random Racking Process" in tournaments for a long time. Here is the description from his website:

• "The Random Racking Process for Nine and Ten-Ball is fast and simple. Non-breaker gathers object balls and prepares the balls for final racking by the breaker. Breaker assists in gathering the object balls. Non-breaker places the object balls in the triangle. Without looking down at the rack, non-breaker spins the triangle once or twice (shuffles the balls). Non-breaker now looks down at the rack. Non-breaker gets his hands, knuckles, or fingers behind all the balls and then pushes them into the nine or ten-ball configuration. Then, non-breaker, while only moving 2 balls, swaps the 1-ball into the head-ball position. Then, while only moving 2 balls, swaps the 9 or 10-ball into the middle ball position. Breaker steps in and pushes the balls up to the spot. He racks his own balls. He may not change the ball positions in the rack. He may not touch the front 3 balls or the 9-ball."

 

[King T]

Good point!

My solution is simpler. I simply don't care. I think at the amateur level, no one plays good enough to make pattern racking an issue. I think maybe once you get above 700 fargo or so, it starts to become important. Though still there are many players above that level who don't have a ton of break strategy and blast things all over anyway. It really only seems to be an issue with solid pros. I've literally heard D players complaining about pattern racking. It just sounds ludicrous to me.
If you're not making a ball and getting shape on the one, any pattern "advantage" is immediately transferred to your opponent anyway...and that is a huge if for many.

KMRUNOUT

Your right, it doesn't matter. Most players don't make a ball on the break in 10 ball and in 9 ball most people aren't running racks anyway.

 

[Paul Schofield]

Rarely mentioned, the beauty, attraction, and excitement of rotation games is the variability, randomness, and endless possibilities. Templates and prescribed racking patterns work against this concept. Every effort should be made to maintain the chance element.

 

[King T]

Or maybe..,

So whats wrong with making the rue that the balls must racked in the same pattern every game? No advantage to anyone, nothing to argue about.

It wouldn't matter at all in alternate break formats or loser break formats, winner break format bar table might be tougher, but even then it doesn't have to.

 

[KMRUNOUT]

So whats wrong with making the rue that the balls must racked in the same pattern every game? No advantage to anyone, nothing to argue about.

It wouldn't matter at all in alternate break formats or loser break formats, winner break format bar table might be tougher, but even then it doesn't have to.

Seems fair and reasonable. I think some would argue it is more boring. I like the idea though.

KMRUNOUT

 

[chefjeff]

A rack that meets the various rules for random racking can be easily achieved without using cards, coins, computers, printouts, etc. For example, Paul Schofield of Gold Crown Billiards in Erie, PA has been successfully using his "Random Racking Process" in tournaments for a long time. Here is the description from his website:

• "The Random Racking Process for Nine and Ten-Ball is fast and simple. Non-breaker gathers object balls and prepares the balls for final racking by the breaker. Breaker assists in gathering the object balls. Non-breaker places the object balls in the triangle. Without looking down at the rack, non-breaker spins the triangle once or twice (shuffles the balls). Non-breaker now looks down at the rack. Non-breaker gets his hands, knuckles, or fingers behind all the balls and then pushes them into the nine or ten-ball configuration. Then, non-breaker, while only moving 2 balls, swaps the 1-ball into the head-ball position. Then, while only moving 2 balls, swaps the 9 or 10-ball into the middle ball position. Breaker steps in and pushes the balls up to the spot. He racks his own balls. He may not change the ball positions in the rack. He may not touch the front 3 balls or the 9-ball."

And who turns out the lights?



Jeff Livingston

 

[garczar]

A rack that meets the various rules for random racking can be easily achieved without using cards, coins, computers, printouts, etc. For example, Paul Schofield of Gold Crown Billiards in Erie, PA has been successfully using his "Random Racking Process" in tournaments for a long time. Here is the description from his website:

• "The Random Racking Process for Nine and Ten-Ball is fast and simple. Non-breaker gathers object balls and prepares the balls for final racking by the breaker. Breaker assists in gathering the object balls. Non-breaker places the object balls in the triangle. Without looking down at the rack, non-breaker spins the triangle once or twice (shuffles the balls). Non-breaker now looks down at the rack. Non-breaker gets his hands, knuckles, or fingers behind all the balls and then pushes them into the nine or ten-ball configuration. Then, non-breaker, while only moving 2 balls, swaps the 1-ball into the head-ball position. Then, while only moving 2 balls, swaps the 9 or 10-ball into the middle ball position. Breaker steps in and pushes the balls up to the spot. He racks his own balls. He may not change the ball positions in the rack. He may not touch the front 3 balls or the 9-ball."

Pretty sure the OP asked for "simple" solution. This sounds kinda goofy. Can't you just call the "non-breaker" the "racker"?

 

[Hits 'em Hard]

Such a solution has already been proposed: print out drawings of the (random) racks. Each player has to break from the patterns in order -- fifth rack for each is the same rack, for example.

In alternating break format, no two sequential games should have the same pattern. In 9 ball there is really just a few racks possible. I’m not doing my math right, but it should work out that in a race to 13, neither player should break the same pattern twice. Same goes for 8 ball. I believe 9 ball is something like 2520 different possible racks, excluding mirrored racks that can be broken from the other side of the table. 8 ball only has like 196.

 

[maha]

simply just have the opponent rack the balls and let the shooter just do a straight push up to the spot with the rack one time then break them.

 

[K2Kraze]

There already is a solution to this problem of “pattern racking” folks - it’s been written into the rules for eons.

Doesn’t anyone read or follow the rules for the games we play?

I know - I see people moving balls around inside the “rack” every day for 8/9/10 ball....and I always say “HEY! Stop doing that. And start randomly racking per the rules.” After a while, everyone knows how to do it

World-Standardized Rules/BCA are there for everyone to read, so I’ll save precious time so you don’t have to go grab or google the rules: this is from the RACK section of each rule set...

“...the other balls are placed in the diamond/triangle without purposeful or intentional pattern.”

Perhaps the real question is “How does one actually go about placing balls into a rack without any chance of purpose or intention?”

Easy. But you have to practice.

Once you have all of the balls near the diamond/triangle [AND you’ve spent a few seconds mixing them up once they’re all together near the rail] you place ALL of them into the rack at once. Just load them. Any which way they fall. Randomizing the balls BEFORE they get into the rack is the key. THEN...depending on which game you’re playing:

1) 9-Ball. Simply pick out the 9 and swap it for whichever ball is currently in the center position. Then do the same for the 1 and place it at the apex spot. That’s it. Simple. Not one other ball is moved. Ever.

2) 8-Ball. The ONLY two requirements are having the 8 directly below the apex ball (center of the 3rd row) AND one ball from each group must be in the lower two corners. You swap two balls MAX every time. Not one other ball is ever touched. Regardless of how they look to you or anyone else.

3) 10-Ball. Two requirements. The 1 must be at the apex and the 10 is in the middle. Again, AFTER all balls are placed into the triangle, you can only move a maximum of two balls if they aren’t already in their place - swap the 10 to it’s position and the 1 to the apex spot.

Simple.

And purely random.

Now - what’s not to love about this random racking methodology?


~ K.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[chefjeff]

There already is a solution to this problem of “pattern racking” folks - it’s been written into the rules for eons.

Doesn’t anyone read or follow the rules for the games we play?

I know - I see people moving balls around inside the “rack” every day for 8/9/10 ball....and I always say “HEY! Stop doing that. And start randomly racking per the rules.” After a while, everyone knows how to do it

World-Standardized Rules/BCA are there for everyone to read, so I’ll save precious time so you don’t have to go grab or google the rules: this is from the RACK section of each rule set...

“...the other balls are placed in the diamond/triangle without purposeful or intentional pattern.”

Perhaps the real question is “How does one actually go about placing balls into a rack without any chance of purpose or intention?”

Easy. But you have to practice.

Once you have all of the balls near the diamond/triangle, you place ALL of them into the rack at once. Just load them. Any which way they fall. THEN...depending on which game you’re playing:

1) 9-Ball. Simply pick out the 9 and swap it for whichever ball is currently in the center position. Then do the same for the 1 and place it at the apex spot. That’s it. Simple. Not one other ball is moved. Ever.

2) 8-Ball. The ONLY two requirements are having the 8 directly below the apex ball (center of the 3rd row) AND one ball from each group must be in the lower two corners. You swap two balls MAX every time. Not one other ball is ever touched. Regardless of how they look to you or anyone else.

3) 10-Ball. Two requirements. The 1 must be at the apex and the 10 is in the middle. Again, AFTER all balls are placed into the triangle, you can only move a maximum of two balls if they aren’t already in their place - swap the 10 to it’s position and the 1 to the apex spot.

Simple.

And purely random.

Now - what’s not to love about this random racking methodology?


~ K.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What's not to love is when it is used on tables with ball returns.

If one of the players in the previous game ran, say, 7 solids then missed and the next player ran out, the balls coming down into the collection area are NOT randomly placed there. but instead are in 2 groups, stripes and solids.

If you simply reach in with both hands to rack (as 99% of us do), then one hand grabs the stripe and the other the solids. When those are place in the triangle rack, one side tends to be stripes and the other solids.

Mixing those up, before or after in the rack works better for "randomness."

I think that's why most players tweak the rack even with "random" rules.



Jeff Livingston

 

[chefjeff]

When balls are made of the same material as your phone then the balls will be white all over and not show their numbers until after the break.

It could happen.


Jeff Livingston

 

[K2Kraze]

Ahhhh

I see part of the problem you’ve brought up.

The fix for that of course (knowing these random racking rules) would be to get all balls onto the table FIRST and simply mix them up before they are placed into the rack.

“Randomizing” balls once they are in the rack is the problem. Different people see different “patterns” and will consciously (and subconsciously) place them in some way their mind (or motives) want them to be in.

I’ll have to go back and amend my post to mention that mixing up the object balls for mere seconds PRIOR to being placed in the rack is part of the key.

Good points you brought up.

~ K.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[AtLarge]

And who turns out the lights?



Jeff Livingston

According to the man who has lots of experience with it, "The Random Racking Process takes an extra 2 or 3 seconds."

[And, in some cases, it would be many minutes quicker.]

 

[AtLarge]

Pretty sure the OP asked for "simple" solution. This sounds kinda goofy. Can't you just call the "non-breaker" the "racker"?

I think it is simple. And both players are involved in the racking, so you can't just call one of them the "racker."

 

[Scratch85]

Pretty sure the OP asked for "simple" solution. This sounds kinda goofy. Can't you just call the "non-breaker" the "racker"?

Garczar, I know you know this, but it’s not just the pattern, with a triangle, that gives a racker ways to manipulate the break.

If there was an app that randomly produced the 5040 (hope that’s correct) different racks and a template was the used, it seems mostly random. For big tournaments, iPads and personnel may be needed. For small tournaments and leagues, Smart phones should work.

I have gambled hundreds of dollars on the “coin flip” app. I would gladly accept a “random rack” app.


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