Situation with customer & Pred 314

Cue Crazy

Cue Crazy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I often get these shafts with ferrule situations, and usually try to refer them to someone authorized, or to preditor for replacement, usually people are persistent upon me to do the work, even as far as to try and get me to put and tenon and standard ferrule in It. This I don't recomend or aggree with, due to the change in design, and what makes the shaft what it is.

Well, I get another one today in with 2 shafts for repair from a customer, I recomended contacting preditor, as they are not far away, and within driving distance, or sending it to someone that is authorized. Neither option seemed to strike his fancy, and he still wanted me to do the work, said he does'nt like the feel anyway, and wondered if I could tenon it, and install a longer standard ferrule. I mentioned that I can do the work, but don't recomend this due to the change in design. Now I have done this with some old skinny 314's in the past that were personal shafts given to us, but the laminates were coming apart and the diameter was really small anyway (they were basically junk anyway at that point). I have never done this with a customer cue, therefore don't want to start now.

Anyway, when I talked on the phone with him ,I told him I will look It over, and give him a call. My dad picked the shafts up for me. I look at the shaft, and besides being very dirty with a couple of small nicks, I should be able to get the shaft clean like new. Also I notice the finish at the joint is perfect, and the ferrule OD is still at 0.505, between 12.75 and 13 mm, so i really don't want to do a hack job like that to such a nice shaft.

I start thinking and unless there is an ethics issue here I'm unaware of or I would'nt be stomping on someone's toes, I don't see why I could'nt do the actual machining of the work to put the ferrule back to original, I have done alot harder things then to match this design, but I don't have the material, and not sure if there is a replacement that will work for this design.

I have a few questions if anyone would be as kind as to help me out here,

(1) I have alittle over 0.770 on the ferrule lenth, and this guy would like to have a little longer ferrule. Would this make ferrule more prone to ballooning in the middle, and if so would creating a slighty thicker wall help with this any, or would this change the design too much?

(2) What would be the going rate for a job like this and standard tip with shaft cleaning?

(3) third and most important what material can I use to machine the ferrule from, or where is the best place to get replacement ferrules?


I have thought about this- alot of people around here like the shafts, and i have considered offering them as an extra shaft on some cues that I build if I can find a good enough deal on partials. That combined with the fact I work on alot of them makes It seem only proper for me to be able to service the ferrules in house as well. I don't think doing the work will be a problem, but I need the material that will hold up to this design.


If anyone could help me or has any usefull advise or info, I would truelly be gratefull:) If better to PM me then please feel free to do so, The ferrule in question is ballooning already, and to make things worse he trimmed the sides of the tip with a hand tool, and really got into the ferrule with it, so it's about to crack anytime now, and I really need something to make a ferrule from, so I can get the shaft back in service for him.

Thanks, Greg
 
Make the drive yourself and talk to the good end of the horse. Talk to the people who will do the most for you on this subject. PREDATOR.
 
:D :D Good advice no dought, better from the horses mouth instead of the other way around, and I have actually been intending to do that, but have been slow to get up there unfortunately. Years ago We use to play a local tourney up there each week, and there were two teenagers at the time that worked at thier shop early on putting laminates together I believe, and use to play in this tourney each week also. they each had the limited edition model cues at the time, different from others I have seen. I remember they played really sporty, one was really good on the felt even back then, and from what I've understand is at quite a bit higher level of play now days. I have'nt really played up there that much in a long time though except in league play for reginals. I've been meaning to ride up there, and see what I can find out, just have'nt got around to It yet. Right now I'm really strapped for time, doing house repairs during the day, and cuework most of the night, with only a few hours to sleep, and I have this guy's shaft to decide what to do with in a reasonable amount of time, so I am somewhat in a urgent situation, and in a perfect world, It would be nice if i could find somewhere to buy enough material to take care of him until I can get more info from the source.
So here I am guessing that there is no where online I can find a ferrule or the material to make one, even if I have to pay retail for now.:confused:

I'm thinking I'm just going to do the best I can to put a new tip on it for now, until I can do better, or he decides to take it to them or ship it out to someone I recomended for the job. I already mentioned that would be the best thing right now, and any work I do will void any warranty on the shaft anyhow, but I guess he's under the impression that it would'nt be warranteed for damage he inflicted to the ferrule himself. I Ocasionally get people like that when it comes to these. I guess they have their reasons, I'm just at a loss without the correct material for the job at the moment. (Things I should have done yesterday):p :)

Thanks, Greg
 
Hi Greg,
Unfortunately, you're not going to find Predator ferrule mtrl. on the open market, it's proprietary. That means that Predator had it made exclusively for themselves and no one else can use it. If you want Pred. ferrules, you're going to have to get them from Predator.
 
Hi-ya Greg,

The Predator ferrule is made from Titan... It says right there on their website. Not sure where to get it though.

I don't think that it would be a problem to make the ferrule a little bit longer, but you can't do much about the wall thickness. There's no way to make the side any thicker without losing diameter of your tenon. Since the tenon is hollow, that's not such a good idea.
 
Predator ferrules are no longer made from Titan material. I spoke with them a few days ago and it is called Maxlyte. The problem with the first run of Gen 2 shafts is that the glue did not stick to the Titan material. All of the new shafts have the new ferrule and a new glue. I have both if you want me to replace them.

You can buy the replacement ferrules from Predator but you have to be an authorized repairman.

You can make whatever change you want to the Predator shaft but keep a couple of things in mind; 1) you will void the customer's warranty by changing the material or design. I will not do it even if the customer ok's it. 2) Predator can/will pull your authorization if you perform work that voids the warranty. They can/will also stop supplying you with shafts and/or materials.

The shaft was designed to play a certian way and Predator does not like it when you "improve" on said design.:mad:



***disclaimer*** "improve" is subjective.;)
 
Hi,

this may sound naive, but: Why don't you apply for authorization from Predator? I am quite sure that this would not hurt your business :-)

Regards,

Detlev
 
Hey guys thank all of You for the input. The guy decided to hold off, and take My advice about not fitting a standard ferrule. It's tapered pretty badly on the end from the hand tipping someone did on it, and ballooning where the taper starts, so i don't know how long it will hold, but I just put a cheap standard tip on it, & cleaned the shafts for now at his request. Until I have more time and can see if I can get in contact with someone down here from predator to see what options I have.


On the titan & them upgrading the material- besides the glueing issues, were they having any problems with them cracking also by and chance? I read something about the sidewalls being thin on the one side, but curious if that was the Titan material in that batch? I thought about using some titan before, because it was the closest looking material that I had in solid rod, but I have had failures with mine even with thick sidewalls. I had a couple ferrules made from It crack and spiderweb from there. My last attempt was capped on a house cue, so I'm trying to keep an eye on that one to see what happens. Maybe I just got a bad piece of rod, but it seems to crack much too easily, especially given It's name;) I made a open face ferrule for a slip tenon one time, and altough snug I did not need to pound it on in fact I worked it on fairly easily using only My hand and it cracked in My hand :confused: . That was with the full thickness of the rod diameter, as it had not even be turned down yet, a smaller tenon size too. so the walls were nice and thick. I still have that ferrule laying on the bench somewhere. Anyway it just did'nt seem plyable enough to replace their ferrules using their same design with the Titan I had in stock, unless the cap helped hold It together, so i never tried It.

Thank You all again, I really apprietiate you guys trying to help & taking the time out to post, .:)

Greg
 
ratcues said:
Predator ferrules are no longer made from Titan material. I spoke with them a few days ago and it is called Maxlyte. The problem with the first run of Gen 2 shafts is that the glue did not stick to the Titan material. All of the new shafts have the new ferrule and a new glue. I have both if you want me to replace them.

You can buy the replacement ferrules from Predator but you have to be an authorized repairman.

You can make whatever change you want to the Predator shaft but keep a couple of things in mind; 1) you will void the customer's warranty by changing the material or design. I will not do it even if the customer ok's it. 2) Predator can/will pull your authorization if you perform work that voids the warranty. They can/will also stop supplying you with shafts and/or materials.

The shaft was designed to play a certian way and Predator does not like it when you "improve" on said design.:mad:



***disclaimer*** "improve" is subjective.;)
Click to expand...


Thank You Sir, that's some of the stuff I was curious about too.:) This guy requestioning the larger ferrule is unusual for me, first time I've been asked to do anything other then replace the original, or standard fit a ferrule to them, which I really won't even do, or atleast I've talked everyone out of it that has tried to get me to do that. After seeing it, I definatly would'nt fit his with a regular ferrule. Other then it needing to be replaced, the shaft is In good condition, some blueing, which will probably clean up like new.

I just need the material for service work, I have no issues sticking to the original design, authorization or none, afterall that's the way it should be for me most of the time, and I don't want to use a sub par material. The whole purpose would be so I could keep the same play and feel the shaft had originally so there's no drastic differences to the player. I always try to match a ferrule with the closest material I can get & stick to the tenon design when I can. Sometimes I get someone that wants a harder or softer ferrule, but that's on standard maple shafts for the most part.

Anyway good info, thank You much, PM Me your info and price with shipping if you would like, and I'll pass it along when the ferrule jobs come in, until I'm ready to handle them Myself. Maybe I can pass alittle bit of work your way when they come up.:) Right now I'm just trying to juggle too many things at once, I'm not even getting much sleep lately, but I'm working harder towards getting a few monkeys off My back then i have in the past. hopefully when I'm done I'll free up some time, life stresses, and alittle extra space I need for more equipment.

I do apprieitate the info, Thanks again, Greg
 
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