I know of two types of skid. The one that occurs the most frequently from my observations are on cutshots the cueball seems to 'grab' the object ball quite a bit, and the object ball reacts as if it was hit too thick. Another type that I've only seen a few times is very strange. When the cueball hits the object ball, the cueball hops a little bit and it seems to throw the object ball off quite a bit more than normal skid. Does anyone know what causes the 'hop skid'? The only times I've seen it happen, the player was using follow on the cueball with a level stroke. I am guessing that the hop is the cue ball slightly climbing up on the object ball because of excessive friction from chalk or humidity, or is there something else that causes it?
skid
- Thread starter LastTwo
- Start date
I think you have it. This happens all the time at carom billiards when you are trying to follow almost straight forward. It also happens at pool. I saw it at the IPT KotH tournament. I think Manalo was shooting, and he had a 2-foot shot almost straight into the side. He was trying to follow to the side rail. The cue ball hopped a little and only followed a little.LastTwo said:
I think this is especially a problem with short, straight follow shots when the patch of chalk that the cue tip leaves on the cue ball rotates around the cue ball and lands at the contact point. With a similar draw shot, at least the chalk has a chance to be rubbed off as the bottom of the ball rubs on the cloth.
LastTwo said:
The first one you mention is probably just throw. In these instances, there is likely some inadvertant inside english applied to the cue ball, causing the object ball to react as if it was hit much fuller than it actually was. This phenomenon can be observed best if the object ball has a long way to travel before hitting a rail. The path of the object ball will actually curve if enough english is used. On some level, maybe subconsciously, you are already compensating for this curved path when you aim a cut shot.
The second "skid" example you give is something that has happened to me a few times I think. I simply cannot explain it.. yet. Every once in a blue moon, I will shoot a short straight-in shot very softly, usually with some degree of follow, and it will hop when it hits the object ball. When this happens the hit between the object ball and the cue ball sounds funny too. It sounds like a double click when they collide. A double hit on a object ball head on without involving a rail seems impossible to me, but I am quite sure that is what happens. This phenomenon is very rare. I probably could not duplicate it if I tried 1000 times. The resulting path of the cue ball is usually way off the line of the shot, and does not agree with the follow applied even though it is straight in. If you were to hit the object ball off center, it seems even less likely they would double hit.
Some will say that I have jumped the cueball slightly. This is not the case! I am talking about a shot that has so little energy put into it that it couldn't possibly hop. Not even with a jump cue. Futhermore, the stroke is level and the cueball rolls to the target. It is as if the cueball is climbing up the object ball, instead of the usual elastic collision. I can plainly see that the cueball does not jump until it hits the object ball.
Others will suggest that it is because the balls are dirty or chipped. This has also been considered, but the balls I was playing with the last time it happened were brand spanking new, perfect and clean.
Can anybody offer a good explanation as to what is occurring here?
-Schypda
I am stunned at Bob's explination because I have never thought about that and think he is exactly correct! The extra friction of a spot of chalk between the balls at the contact point coupled with the rotation of the cueball would give these results. I think that it could happen on a draw shot if you also used english and the object ball was close to the cueball. The spot of chalk would not be rubbed off by the felt for a rotation or two resulting in a weird reaction.
Good call, Bob!
Good call, Bob!
Chalk is on the cue ball. If you had looked at the cue ball closely after the "little hop skid," I'm betting that not only would you have noticed a spot of chalk on the cue ball (from where the tip just hit it) but you would also have seen, if you had looked very closely, a small spot within that chalk spot that looked like a small miscue.schypda said:
Chalk is transferred from the tip to the cue ball on every shot. Whether it is a problem later depends on how quickly it falls off or is rubbed off and whether it happens to be at the contact point at the instant of collision. Some cue balls under some conditions seem to keep chalk longer.
So, even if I keep the cueball as clean and free of chalk as possible, this still can occur? There will always be at least one chalk mark. I have lost a few very important matches this way. In fact, I missed a B&R and lost in 8-ball league because of this just last week. That sucks! It is very dissapointing to learn that there is no way to avoid it. I guess this is a testament to the old addage "you can't win 'em all".
I'm guessing this hopping phenomenon is probably more likely to happen on softer shots than harder shots. The friction effects are similar to throw between the CB and OB on a cut shot. The slower the CB travels on impact, the greater the time it takes for the surfaces to "grab" each other, and thus more effective throw.schypda said:
schypda said:
One of the problems are the polishes and cleaners used.
Some cleaners leave a film which adds friction.
Polishes that do not produce a super hard and smooth finish also add friction even without collecting chalk (you can tell by just feeling the balls after being polished, they are almost sticky).
I think just chalk on the cue ball could do it. But the really bad instances of skid, I've always thought, occur when the object ball has residual chalk on it AND the cue ball has chalk on it, AND the two chalked point on the CB and OB make contact. Admittedly, that's rare, but so is skid.
Cory
Cory
There are several ways to avoid skid. If the cue ball is spotted with previous chalk marks, have the referee clean it. Secondly, there are some shots that are more prone to skid, such as the soft follow shot mentioned. It's possible -- and I think there was a recent thread on CCB discussing this -- to choose the amount of spin to make sure the bad spot on the cue ball is not at the contact point. I'm not sure how that works. I guess another way to reduce the chance is to make sure you have no more chalk on your tip than needed.schypda said:
Cory in DC said:
I've had brand new polished balls at the billiard room skid. I could not find even the smallest amount of chalk. The room that I play at completely cleans each table as well as clean and polish the billiard balls every morning.
Also, skids occur the more humid it is and many of the finishes will get softer in these conditions resulting in a tackier ball.
Another interesting note is that billiard balls wear down fast (in diameter) and the CB has the fastest wear of all the balls, because of play. Eventually the CB is smaller (test this out by racking the balls with the CB in the center to see if there is a difference). How do you think that a smaller object rolling into a larger one might react? Just a thought here. Anyway, wear is why I am not a big fan of automatic ball cleaners.
In snooker skids, or kicks as we call them seem to me noticeable much more, due to the lighter weight of the balls.
The two types of skid have the same cause. Increased friction at the contact point. It is simply exaggerated throw.
The reason the CB jumps is because the topspin rotation is coverted more linearly upward. So the ball jumps and it's forward roll is (spin) is significantly reduced. It will also make the OB spin backward a little, making it slow down and slide for longer before rolling naturally.
With backspin it can occur too, but as Bob said, the CB spinning against the cloth tends to clean it. Also, if it does occur, the CB will be driven downward into the table, not upward, so a bounce is unlikely to be seen.
An effective way to avoid kicks is to play with a touch of outside english, or at higher speed which reduces the effect of throw. This is why snooker players prefer to punch the balls in pretty firm. This reduces the misses from kicks, which are a major cause of game losses.
The two types of skid have the same cause. Increased friction at the contact point. It is simply exaggerated throw.
The reason the CB jumps is because the topspin rotation is coverted more linearly upward. So the ball jumps and it's forward roll is (spin) is significantly reduced. It will also make the OB spin backward a little, making it slow down and slide for longer before rolling naturally.
With backspin it can occur too, but as Bob said, the CB spinning against the cloth tends to clean it. Also, if it does occur, the CB will be driven downward into the table, not upward, so a bounce is unlikely to be seen.
An effective way to avoid kicks is to play with a touch of outside english, or at higher speed which reduces the effect of throw. This is why snooker players prefer to punch the balls in pretty firm. This reduces the misses from kicks, which are a major cause of game losses.