slate leveling

sausage

sausage

Banned
i bought an 8' brunswick, ventura II for $100. it needed cloth and side pockets. i got it installed in my home by myself but now am having trouble leveling the slate. i can get one piece perfect but then when i try to do the others, the ball keeps rolling to the inside on both sides. a brunswick rep told me to shim in the middle and it will cure the prob. i did this a while back on a 9' gold crown and the slate cracked so i want to be extra careful on this table.

i will soon have a machinist level which should help but that still won't help with the balls rolling to the center of the table on both the right and left side.

any help would be greatly appreciated. i'm having 14.1 withdrawals since i sold my gold crown.
 
a pro

i'm way out in the country and the last "pro" that was here 22 years ago, set up my 9' gold crown. it did THE EXACT SAME THING so i'm assuming that this is not an unusual problem. i just need some advice on how best to deal with it.

i have the slates properly adjoined and the base level. i tried to level the head slate first but that failed. then the foot first but that didn't work so then i tried the center slate but that also failed.

the table is not that old. the slate is dated, 8-15-97 and, unlike my gold crown, looks good.
 
I'd start over with the frame, lay a level across the slate supports and check for low spots under the level.
If the supports are bowed it may have transferred to the slates over time.
 
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sausage said:
i have slates properly adjoined and the base level. i tried to level the head slate first but that failed. then the foot first but that didn't work so then i tried the center slate but that also failed.
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I think Dartman is onto something here. Check out the sticky at the top of this forum for RKC's leveling instructions. One of the first things he has you do is check the frame alone and then with the slate on it to pinpoint the lowest spot, and bring that point up even with the highest. That will also determine which section of slate to start with.
 
that's what i've been trying to avoid but i've considered. since i'm doing this alone, getting the slate on the base was tricky enough. removing it then putting it back is going to be a real pain. but it's probably what needs to be done. when i get that mechanics level i will take the slate back off and start from scratch. compounding the problem is that my foundation shifts with each rain. it's like having a pool table on a boat....
 
I started from one side of the table, slid a section of slate toward me until it was supported by the table at one end and in my hands at the other, and lowered the end in my hands to the floor.

Once it was resting on the floor, I walked it over to the wall a corner at a time, being very careful not to damage anything, and leaned it against the wall.

I just reversed the process to get it back on the frame.
 
sausage said:
that's what i've been trying to avoid but i've considered. since i'm doing this alone, getting the slate on the base was tricky enough. removing it then putting it back is going to be a real pain. but it's probably what needs to be done. when i get that mechanics level i will take the slate back off and start from scratch. compounding the problem is that my foundation shifts with each rain. it's like having a pool table on a boat....
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You don't need a machinist level to check for gaps between a carpenters level and the seam supports.
Further - if you do nothing about the floor shift you'll have ongoing problems.

Follow dk's post on moving slates around. It's pretty simple to walk slates.
 
dkindig:

i had orig planned on installing the slate this way but feared that picking up the slate as it rested on the table would push the base away. after i got one piece on the base will probably be stable enough to do it this way. the other concern i had was that the slate will try to push me backwards as i lift it and it could then too slide off the edge of the base. so i just used the hand-truck as a ramp and rested it on two cinder blocks, then lifted the end of the slate and pushed it onto the base. this worked amazingly well. another concern taking the slate off the base like this, is that i like my fingers and don't want them crushed between the slate and floor.

i have a solid work bench just slightly higher than the table. i'll position it next to the table then slide the slate onto it.

what should i look for as far as problems with the base? one thing i noticed is that the slate screw holes don't line up perfectly with the holes in the base. i've rotated the slate 180º to make sure but still, no match. it's close but no cigar.

You don't need a machinist level to check for gaps between a carpenters level and the seam supports.
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yeah, i know but the problem is, i can get the slate pretty level by repositioning the shims to the center of the end pieces but then i can't get the individual pieces to line up on the playing surface. when i fix one prob, the other gets worse.

Further - if you do nothing about the floor shift you'll have ongoing problems.
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i'm going to fix this problem by moving from north texass to florida. the soil here has a high clay content. it floods and the ground swells then long periods of drought, and it shrinks. nothing stays put for long out here, including homes.
 
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i just talked to a guy on youtube who's table has the same problem. the balls roll in toward the center on both sides. this is a common problem because my last table did the exact same thing. can't someone here tell me the best way to shim to eliminate this problem? this is "talk to a mechanic" right? are there any mechanics here?

what i'm considering is installing another support on the base so that i can shim the slate in the middle, giving it some more support. am i on the right track?
 
sausage said:
i just talked to a guy on youtube who's table has the same problem. the balls roll in toward the center on both sides. this is a common problem because my last table did the exact same thing. can't someone here tell me the best way to shim to eliminate this problem? this is "talk to a mechanic" right? are there any mechanics here?

what i'm considering is installing another support on the base so that i can shim the slate in the middle, giving it some more support. am i on the right track?
Click to expand...

Bolt a length of angle iron across each side of both slate supports.
Make sure they are level with the outside frame top. This should give you a flat frame for the slates to sit on.

Slates are more then likely bowed as it is which is easy enough to check with a straight edge
and if so you'll probably find the slate edges sitting higher off the frame.
 
Dartman said:
Bolt a length of angle iron across each side of both slate supports.
Make sure they are level with the outside frame top. This should give you a flat frame for the slates to sit on.

Slates are more then likely bowed as it is which is easy enough to check with a straight edge
and if so you'll probably find the slate edges sitting higher off the frame.
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Well barring my recent spitball fight with Dartman I think what he just suggested is excellent. Everyone should have a straight edge IMO

also great to check slates with when table is Not set up, when slate on table a set of feeler gauges will tell you exactly how much of a valley there is and rock on a crown. In addition it should lay flat across the seams with no rocking
 
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tsp: yes, i read that already. it's an excellent tutorial.

dkindig: i believe that the slate is slightly sagging in the center as they ALL will do over time if the table has no center supports. mine does not. so what i did was cut two 4"x4" to just fit under the cross members ( the cross members are slightly below slate level by about 3/16") the i shimmed them to snug up under the members. then i reinstalled the slate as per the suggestion above (it was dicey because it's a tile floor and the slate wanted to slide away so i had to put the edge on a sticky rubber cushion which worked but was still dicey.) and leveled it as best i could. then i went under the table and hammered some more shims between the cross-members and the slate so that the weight of the center of the slate was now pushing down on my 4x4's. i continued to level the table and when necessary, went underneath and gave another blow to the shims, pushing the slate up from the center. it's a crime that reputable pool table builders build tables with NO CENTER SLATE SUPPORTS. maybe it's their new "throw-away" pool table design....

i've got it pretty darned level now and probably about as good as it's going to get. it's no longer rolling in toward the center on both sides. my foundation shifts so much that a perfectly level table won't stay that way for long anyway. i'll be playing mostly straight pool and it should be plenty level for that. when i get it totally together i'll up some pics.
 
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