slow table

Solartje

Solartje

the Brunswick BUG bit me
Silver Member
I am wondering what the cheapest way is to check out the humidity in a room? is there a measuring instrument of some kind?

What are the good humidity % to keep a pooltable in?

I have a 9ft diamond, with simonis 860 installed for about a year and a half installed by a profesional. The cloth is still in good shape. (vacuumed and well taken care for). The table gets around 10h of play / week.

My problem is that the table is way to slow and im hardly getting draw...

A friend gave me 2 products from aramith: one to clean all the balls, one antistatic thingy. They look brand new now, and dont get dirty as much, but when i place 2 cue's one next to eachother against a rail, and let a ball role from the higher point, of the cue's, to the short rail and compare the distance run, I get the EXACT same results with the cleaned balls as before. So it ain't the balls.

A friend told me to put lights underneath the table to heat it, like 3c tables and place some ... things to capture the humidity under the table, but i feel like a 860 should play like a 860, and i shouldnt need gadjets to have it play like it should. I payed 300$ for it, and i feel like im playing with mudballs and getting no draw at all. MAx 0.5-0.75 table lenght with a powerdraw. (my stroke is not the problem, as i can draw 2 table lenghts any time on a tournament table.)

The cloth is simonis 860. I checked it when the mechanic arived. The cloth is stretched close to maximum.

The table is in an apartment. 1ste floor, so the rooms underneath and above are both heated. The table is set up in my livingroom, where i have a fireplace on gas to heat the room to a constant 21°. It doesnt feels humid at all, but it seems to be the only explenation i can find.

If the balls are ok, the cloth is well streched, the cloth always has played slowly, but its getting very bad lately. I don't know what else to do.

I will put 760 on next time, but the cloth is still in good shape , so i dont want to spend the 300$ yet if the cloth has some more months to go.
 
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Have you checked the logo with a blacklight to make sure the cloth was installed right side up?
 
Solartje

It sounds like you may have chalk buildup in the cloth.
At 50% humidity or lower your cloth should play great.
I remember a table in close proximity to the kitchen that had absorbed a lot of oil vapors onto the cloth. Any chance that this is the case?

From what I understand Simonis 860 is a real tough cloth to get a tight install on and that even just a bit of relax in cloth tension will cause a slower roll. Are you absolutley sure that the cloth tension is up to the desired spec.?

http://www.waynesthisandthat.com/billiards.htm#aging

The link above has information on cleaning that the author claims gave him great results on his simonis 860 cloth with no ill effects.

Williamd ;)
 
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50% humitity or lower is great. Most likely the cloth needs to be restretched. As long as the rals are in good shape you should have a fast table after sestretching and50% or lower humitity. Johnnyt
 
ive ordered the humidty checker. Hope this will clear things up.
the table is at least 50 feet from the kitchen. I guess ill know soon if its humidity or not.

I vacuum it every now and then. Doesnt seem to play better when i do though.

I dont have a black light to check it.

The rails are perfect. The bank real and give a good bounce. not to hard, not to slow.

The cloth is really well stretched. I cant move it an 1/8 inch if i would. Impossible to move to cloth. He used a pair of clamps and i double checked how he installed it after reading all of glenn his posts. He is a mechanic who places all the tournament tables in my country, and all are perfect. I doubt he would have made a huge error like placing it upside down. But i guess any pro could make a mistake once every 100 tables..

But it did play slow since day one. I couldnt check how fast it played when he installed it and ask him about it, as i reassembled the table myself to save some $.

so
step 1 : check humidity is under 50%
step 2 : find a blacklight (u sure only one side shows simonis blacklighted?)
step 3 : if the above doesnt work, then im out of idea's...

i'll report back with the findings.. :frown:


PS i added a picture. Are the "hair" sticking out normal for its age and play?
1.5y cloth with 1h/play per day. Can a picture tell if its upside or down?
 

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Humidity between 40 and 60% is good but the lower the better.
If you have A/C try running it overnite at 66-67 degrees and check the
ball roll the in the morning. A/C will pull humidity from the room.

What ball set are you using?

I doubt an experienced installer would put Simonis on upside down.
The top side is very smooth with a bit of a sheen to it. Is the Simonis logo showing on any of the rails?
Also check under the rails where the bed cloth is applied and see if the logo is visible anywhere.
If it is then it's installed correctly as the logo is printed on the top side of the cloth.
 
Solartje said:
i dont have a A/C

Im using the aramith TV balls
Click to expand...
Not the balls then.
Turning the heat down won't remove much humidity like A/C will. Wait til you get the humidistat and see what the reading is.
In the meantime, press and move your hand slowly on the table cloth - see if it wrinkles or bunchs up slightly in front of your hand.
 
Dartman said:
Not the balls then.
Turning the heat down won't remove much humidity like A/C will. Wait til you get the humidistat and see what the reading is.
In the meantime, press and move your hand slowly on the table cloth - see if it wrinkles or bunchs up slightly in front of your hand.
Click to expand...

i tried to move the cloth as much as i can, and the max it moves is one...; dont know the word (one line in the cloth). +- 1-2mm. i remember like it was yesterday how he stretched it. It was very tight. About 90-95% of maximum stretch.

ive been thinking over and over what it could be, and exept humidty and upside down i can't think of anything. As i doubt its upside down, it must be humidity.

I checked the weather forcast and its 82% humidity outside... mmm never thought belgium was humid. so this could be it.

i know its early , but whats the cheapest way to lower humidity without having to buy a de-humidfier machine? are there stones of something i could place under the table to lower humidity?

on the other hand... all clubs have same humidity outside and they dont have this problem. Im getting nuts.
 
Solartje said:
i tried to move the cloth as much as i can, and the max it moves is one...; dont know the word (one line in the cloth). +- 1-2mm. i remember like it was yesterday how he stretched it. It was very tight. About 90-95% of maximum stretch.

ive been thinking over and over what it could be, and exept humidty and upside down i can't think of anything. As i doubt its upside down, it must be humidity.

I checked the weather forcast and its 82% humidity outside... mmm never thought belgium was humid. so this could be it.

i know its early , but whats the cheapest way to lower humidity without having to buy a de-humidfier machine? are there stones of something i could place under the table to lower humidity?

on the other hand... all clubs have same humidity outside and they dont have this problem. Im getting nuts.
Click to expand...

You're moving your hand slowly with slight pressure to see if the cloth tries to bubble up in front of your hand. It shouldn't move at all.
Since you don't have A/C the cheapest way to remove humidity is with a dehumidifier.
Once you get the humidistat you can plot a course based on the reading.
 
***
i know its early , but whats the cheapest way to lower humidity without having to buy a de-humidfier machine? are there stones of something i could place under the table to lower humidity?
***

There is a product called Damp-Rid, which is nothing but calcium chloride pellets. A bowel of this stuff works pretty well in small environments. In Europe, they probably sell CaCl2 for ice removal. Keep kids and pets away from it. Works best when in a fenestrated container that can drain the resultant briney-goo into a recptacle that can be emptied from time to time.

http://www.damprid.com/
 
Dartman said:
You're moving your hand slowly with slight pressure to see if the cloth tries to bubble up in front of your hand. It shouldn't move at all.
Since you don't have A/C the cheapest way to remove humidity is with a dehumidifier.
Once you get the humidistat you can plot a course based on the reading.
Click to expand...

it doesnt bubble up, but it moves 1mm.
this might sound much, but try it on any table in the middle of the table and I doubt any cloth wont move 1mm. i might be wrong, but that looks ok.

Dead Crab said:
There is a product called Damp-Rid, which is nothing but calcium chloride pellets. A bowel of this stuff works pretty well in small environments. In Europe, they probably sell CaCl2 for ice removal. Keep kids and pets away from it. Works best when in a fenestrated container that can drain the resultant briney-goo into a recptacle that can be emptied from time to time.

http://www.damprid.com/
Click to expand...

i know the Cacl2. ill try that if the humidity is to high. thanks for the tip.

ps= what is fenestrated container and briney-goo? :rolleyes: my english isn't that good
 
You say cloth is stretched 90-95% of maximum yet only 1 mm of cloth looseness doesn't equate.
If the humidity is high and controlling it doesn't work call in a pro mechanic.

* 1 mm is barely noticeable
 
82% humidity outside is most likely the problem. Also if you have brick walls in your home then that will hold the humidity inside and cause slow rolling.
 
When talking about humidity it is important to remeber "dewpoint" or that temperature at which the surrounding air will give up it's moisture to another surface. With outside humidity levels of 82% surfaces like brick and slate ,when even a couple of degrees below ambient air temperature become moisture magnets. On the other hand a temperature of a few degrees above ambient air and it will transpire (give up its moisture) to the air. If you try to fog up an object ball that has been sitting on the table overnight with your breath does it clear quickly or does it hold the moisture on its surface for a while and disappear slowly.
This is where the advantage of heating a table to a few degrees above ambient air has great advantage. A few well placed low wattage light bulbs under the slate will warm the slate gently and evenly. You may find this to be your best course of action. At any rate you could try it to see if it would make a difference :cool:

WilliamD
 
When humidity is high cloth tends to loosen unless it was stretched to the max on install.

There's a disconnect here as OP says the cloth was installed 90-95% of max which makes it inherently looser then desired.
Add high humidity and the cloth should move much more than 1 mm as reported by OP.

The suggestion of some lights under the table may help. Worth a try anyway.
 
Dartman said:
When humidity is high cloth tends to loosen unless it was stretched to the max on install.

There's a disconnect here as OP says the cloth was installed 90-95% of max which makes it inherently looser then desired.
Add high humidity and the cloth should move much more than 1 mm as reported by OP.

The suggestion of some lights under the table may help. Worth a try anyway.
Click to expand...

Dartman :thumbup:

I agree :confused:
There seems to be a bit of conflicting information so far!

I always try for tight as possible and then......... a bit more !!! :cool:
I have never been dissapointed even when living on the Gulf coast in Florida!

Dave
 
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Solartje said:
ive ordered the humidty checker. Hope this will clear things up.
the table is at least 50 feet from the kitchen. I guess ill know soon if its humidity or not.

I vacuum it every now and then. Doesnt seem to play better when i do though.

I dont have a black light to check it.

The rails are perfect. The bank real and give a good bounce. not to hard, not to slow.

The cloth is really well stretched. I cant move it an 1/8 inch if i would. Impossible to move to cloth. He used a pair of clamps and i double checked how he installed it after reading all of glenn his posts. He is a mechanic who places all the tournament tables in my country, and all are perfect. I doubt he would have made a huge error like placing it upside down. But i guess any pro could make a mistake once every 100 tables..

But it did play slow since day one. I couldnt check how fast it played when he installed it and ask him about it, as i reassembled the table myself to save some $.

so
step 1 : check humidity is under 50%
step 2 : find a blacklight (u sure only one side shows simonis blacklighted?)
step 3 : if the above doesnt work, then im out of idea's...

i'll report back with the findings.. :frown:


PS i added a picture. Are the "hair" sticking out normal for its age and play?
1.5y cloth with 1h/play per day. Can a picture tell if its upside or down?
Click to expand...

Dude, your cloth is on wrong-side-up. Period. You can tell from the weave of the cloth.
 
Dead Crab said:
There is a product called Damp-Rid, which is nothing but calcium chloride pellets. A bowel of this stuff works pretty well in small environments.. In Europe, they probably sell CaCl2 for ice removal. Keep kids and pets away from it. Works best when in a fenestrated container that can drain the resultant briney-goo into a recptacle that can be emptied from time to time.

http://www.damprid.com/
Click to expand...

So what does he do? Hop up on the table and walk around farting on it?:eek::)
 
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