Smaller Balls, would it help?

Billiard Architect

Billiard Architect

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I have heard Allen Hopkins say numerous times that the reason the European players like Souquet, Immomen, Corr and Fischer are so good is because they learned playing snooker. He stated because the ball size is smaller which forces you have to be more precise in your aiming. Is there truth to this? Are there some snooker players out there that can confirm that after playing snooker it makes you a better pool player?

If it is true why not get a set of snooker balls or just a few to practice with to better your aiming?
 
I think a more fair statement would not be about ball size alone but the correlation of the ball size to pocket size.

I have always thought that the best learning tool that could ever be made would be something that would simply helped you line up and deliver the cueball to a precise point.

In other words we basically know where each OB has to be hit on every shot and we can learn or teach this very quickly. But its very difficult to get the right spots on each ball to contact each other and combine with english, friction etc.

If there was a way to absolutely fine tune my ability to shoot the cueball where I want then i would buy it instantly.

There was a thing invented some years back that you placed on a rail and then aimed at it.. it has some lights on it and if you hit the correct sot it lit up. I thought it was going to be a great aid but I heard that it didn't fine tune enough and just wasnt that good.

I am not sure how big the actual spot on the OB is that we are aiming for but someone told me it about an 8th of an inch shooting to an open pocket. Is this true?
If so (or not) then someone should come up with a way to fine tune aiming at different distance to that measurement. Then once we get that down we could apply it to the game itself and the need for english and all other variables.

Of course my thought could be way way off :D
 
A snooker ball will not hit the rails at the correct point on the curvature if the ball. Kicks and banks will be "dead."

If you are going to use smaller balls and pockets to sharpen accuracy, you'd have to lower your cushions to practice kicks and banks as well, or skip those shots.

I like the creative thinking, though!
 
I have not played snooker in over 30 yrs. I am not sure as to exactly what Mr. Hopkins was referring to regarding more precise 'aiming' due to the ball size, but I will say this.

The pockets are smaller relative to the ball size & with rounded 'corners'. The tip end of the cue stick is larger relative to the ball size except possibly when you get down to something like an 8mm tip.

All that being said there in much less room for error & one certainly needs to be more precise. That is why, IMHO, that I feel that so many snooker players employ a straight line piston like stroke. They can not afford to be off 'at all' as to where the tip strikes the ball.

If it is good for them, why should it not be good for us?

I think if one were to get pocket reducers & a set of snooker balls along with a small tipped shaft & played with all of that, one's aim might become more focused or one might give up on it if ones stroke is not precise enough.

So yeah, I certainly think it could help or at least it could define an existing fault in either ones aim or stroke.
 
frankncali said:
I


I am not sure how big the actual spot on the OB is that we are aiming for but someone told me it about an 8th of an inch shooting to an open pocket. Is this true?
Click to expand...

Two variables effect the width of the contact point (i.e. margin of error): Cut angle and distance to the pocket

As the cut gets thinner (large cut angle) the width of the contact point becomes smaller. We might have a 1/8" wide contact point for a straight-in shot, but only 1/32" for a 45-degree angle shot.

You can see this by placing the 11-ball on the table with the numbers lined up to the pocket. Assume the space taken up by the number 11 is the workable contact point. From the vantage point of a straight-in shot you've got the full width of the "11" to shoot at. But as you rotate around to a 45-degree angle the width of the 11 shrinks in size.

The larger the distance is to the pocket, the smaller the acceptable contact point becomes. For a straight-in shot 6" from the pocket you've probably got a 3/8" wide workable contact point (large margin of error -- that's why you can cheat the pocket). But from 6' away the contact point shrinks to less than 1/8".

But to answer the OP's question, it's the bowtie that makes snooker players so much more accurate....as in, "after I sink these balls I can take off this darn bowtie!"
 
Being precise in your aiming is a good thing.
But I don't think smaller balls is the way to go about it.
Snooker players have smaller balls, smaller pockets, less forgiving pockets, more distance...
there are a bunch of variables that require them to shoot straighter.
The balls are just one part of it, not even the most important part.

The reason they shoot straight is not the table they play on, or the balls they use,
it's that they are willing to put in the hours to make their stroke as straight as humanly possible.
They were taught (or instinctively understood) how important it is to have perfect fundamentals
on a huge table with tiny, rounded pockets.

Finding the contact point to make the shot (where to aim) is actually pretty easy in pool.
A lot of us miss because we aimed at the right spot, but sent the cue ball somewhere else.

I wouldn't practice with smaller balls on a pool table because relative to the pocket,
they have a ton of room for error, you can cut the ball several degrees off and it will ball into
that huge pocket. This will make you think you're aiming precisely even when you're not.

A better test of aiming prowess is to just set up long straight ins.
You don't need to buy a special set of balls to test yourself.
Just set up a 9+ foot straight in tester with regular pool balls.
If you start drilling those in 10/10 times, you're probably good to go.
 
Johnny "V" said:
I have heard Allen Hopkins say numerous times that the reason the European players like Souquet, Immomen, Corr and Fischer are so good is because they learned playing snooker. He stated because the ball size is smaller which forces you have to be more precise in your aiming. Is there truth to this? Are there some snooker players out there that can confirm that after playing snooker it makes you a better pool player?

If it is true why not get a set of snooker balls or just a few to practice with to better your aiming?
Click to expand...

It's myths and malarkey.

All of these players are great because they are great. They have uncanny talent, discipline and drive.

There looks to be no mention that Ralf ever played snooker. Mika already excelled at the game of Kaisa, the game closer to Russian Pyramids using very large balls before playing any snooker.

Drive, dedication, love/hate relationship to the game... that's what makes players and champions.

The greatest female players include of course Jean Balukas, a woman who has never been associated with snooker.

The greatest male player... Efren, Sigel, Earl, Buddy,... no small ball there.


Shoot some snoooker, then go to the pool table and making shots becomes magically easier. Position play? Out the door. Oddly enough, I've had the same experience with 3C billiards which doesn't even have pockets. Switch to pool and making balls becomes easier... position play... forget about it.

It's a good thing this great game of ours isn't limited to pocket balls or else we'd end up with a free throw contest every night.

Freddie <~~~ wonder why Allen would attribute Ralf's success to snooker
 
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I think CreeDo hit the nail on the head saying they are willing to practice on having a stroke that is smooth and on target every time. When I was learning the guy who taught me made me lay a Coke bottle on the table and stroke into the opening for hours at a time to get my stroke. I tell people to do that today and they look at me like I am crazy. He also made me play to hit the center of the pocket or else the shot didn't count. That alone made you try harder to center cut balls.--Smitty
 
if you really want to force accuracy grab some pool balls and play 9 ball on a snooker table.
 
Johnny "V" said:
I have heard Allen Hopkins say numerous times that the reason the European players like Souquet, Immomen, Corr and Fischer are so good is because they learned playing snooker. He stated because the ball size is smaller which forces you have to be more precise in your aiming. Is there truth to this? Are there some snooker players out there that can confirm that after playing snooker it makes you a better pool player?

If it is true why not get a set of snooker balls or just a few to practice with to better your aiming?
Click to expand...
There is way more to it then that. I have spent quit a bit of time in Europe and the attitude is just completely different. Improvement is encouraged. When I was there they had in most places I went what they called "Train time". If you wanted to practice by yourself there was a special rate for single practice.

Here if a kid wants to become a good player he will go broke just practicing. Many of the players there play in what are more like clubs. They respect the up and coming players and even back them so they can compete. Here all a pool room is only interested in is how much money they can get out of your pocket. They could care less about the quality of the players who come in the room. There is no way for younger players here to get a good background in the game. It is an up hill clime from the start.

By the way, I believe Hopkins started playing on a small 8 footer.
 
I do not think small balls is the answer.

Perhaps more hours of work especially more time on fundamentals.
 
Simple Mistake

I believe Allen simply attributed to Ralf an assumption he made from the various English Players who converted to American Pool. I am not so sure of Mika having an extensive Snooker background.

I played against Ralf in the German Pool League when he was 18-19 yrs old. He was already European Junior 8 Ball Champion by that time. He didn't have any experience playing snooker. Tobias Kim had a 12 ft. Snooker Table at his club, in Ludwigshafen I believe,and I am not certain if Ralf had played there as he got older.

Ralf's proficiency is attributed to the German Club and League System which encourages Training and Development. When he had to bust his chops in league play with Oliver Ortmann, Thomas Engert, Ralf Eckert, and 50 other top notch players week in and week out, he developed all the skills he needed.

cajunfats
 
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