Smart defensive play?

[Aaron_S]

This very interesting rack was posted earlier (thanks to The Beginner for sharing it), and I was intrigued by Foldes' decision to play the two roll-up safeties rather than simply thinning the 1 and sending the cueball up-table. As someone who has spent a great deal of time playing on unfamiliar and, let's just say "less-than-perfect" equipment, those two plays seemed to me to bear unwarranted risk when compared to the other options available. I was especially surprised by the second roll-up where he put himself on two fouls and put the 9-ball in close proximity to the on-ball. If the balls had been rearranged slightly, his opponent's jump-hit (which, admittedly, would have not been easy to foresee) could have been into a dead 1/9 combo (for the match), or if his opponent had gotten fortunate on his jump-hit and hooked Foldes, then he could have found himself the victim of a 3-foul loss.

It made me wonder if Foldes, down 6 racks with his opponent on the hill, was trying to get 3-fouls simply for the potential mental effect it could have had on his opponent, perhaps putting a chink in his mental armor, or if Foldes truly felt that that was the highest percentage play. Initially I thought that he must not have been executing well that day, and therefore was attempting to gain some momentum without having to run out a rack that wasn't exactly a roadmap, but the ease with which he finished off the rack after getting an open shot seems to debunk that theory.

As I said, I'm a bit confused by the decisions here. What do you guys think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVrb8nlXYYc

Aaron

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

This very interesting rack was posted earlier (thanks to The Beginner for sharing it), and I was intrigued by Foldes' decision to play the two roll-up safeties rather than simply thinning the 1 and sending the cueball up-table. As someone who has spent a great deal of time playing on unfamiliar and, let's just say "less-than-perfect" equipment, those two plays seemed to me to bear unwarranted risk when compared to the other options available. I was especially surprised by the second roll-up where he put himself on two fouls and put the 9-ball in close proximity to the on-ball. If the balls had been rearranged slightly, his opponent's jump-hit (which, admittedly, would have not been easy to foresee) could have been into a dead 1/9 combo (for the match), or if his opponent had gotten fortunate on his jump-hit and hooked Foldes, then he could have found himself the victim of a 3-foul loss.

It made me wonder if Foldes, down 6 racks with his opponent on the hill, was trying to get 3-fouls simply for the potential mental effect it could have had on his opponent, perhaps putting a chink in his mental armor, or if Foldes truly felt that that was the highest percentage play. Initially I thought that he must not have been executing well that day, and therefore was attempting to gain some momentum without having to run out a rack that wasn't exactly a roadmap, but the ease with which he finished off the rack after getting an open shot seems to debunk that theory.

As I said, I'm a bit confused by the decisions here. What do you guys think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVrb8nlXYYc

Aaron

IMO, that was the only win available in that rack. You have to get your opponent on 3 or have him break everything wide open. The intentional foul safety is not a gimme but it's not that hard, either - nobody who calls themself a professional should have a probelm executing this shot.

 

[Aaron_S]

IMO, that was the only win available in that rack. You have to get your opponent on 3 or have him break everything wide open. The intentional foul safety is not a gimme but it's not that hard, either - nobody who calls themself a professional should have a probelm executing this shot.

Yes, and I should say that I certainly don't disagree with his decision to go for 3-fouls here, I just would have expected him to find a way to go for it without putting himself on two. I agree that the skill required for the roll-up shots is not tremendous, but I rarely play on equipment that I trust with shots like that, lol. I just thought that, if he thins the one and leaves a two or three rail kick, then his opponent only has two options at that point: a) he could hit it softly, just hoping to get a rail or b) he could go for a kick-safe, which would require a firmer hit, and therefore could potentially undo that cluster and leave an out. Either way, I think you would still have to like Foldes' end of it from there, wouldn't you?

I guess the biggest thing, though, is that it was a tournament, and the conditions were pristine, which simply allows players to try things that they might not try down at the local pool hall.

Thanks for the reply, Jude.

Aaron

 

[Blackjack]

Well, I consider myself an expert at evaluating this, so with that being said, Michaela Tabb is defintely a gorgeous woman.



As far as the 9 ball goes ... its always interesting to see what you can learn when you have two great players fighting it out. Vilmos made the correct decision - and he forced his opponent to split up the clusters, then he was left in a position to clear the table. That's playing smart 9 ball.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Yes, and I should say that I certainly don't disagree with his decision to go for 3-fouls here, I just would have expected him to find a way to go for it without putting himself on two. I agree that the skill required for the roll-up shots is not tremendous, but I rarely play on equipment that I trust with shots like that, lol. I just thought that, if he thins the one and leaves a two or three rail kick, then his opponent only has two options at that point: a) he could hit it softly, just hoping to get a rail or b) he could go for a kick-safe, which would require a firmer hit, and therefore could potentially undo that cluster and leave an out. Either way, I think you would still have to like Foldes' end of it from there, wouldn't you?

I guess the biggest thing, though, is that it was a tournament, and the conditions were pristine, which simply allows players to try things that they might not try down at the local pool hall.

Thanks for the reply, Jude.

Aaron

You have to remember, you're looking at it on tv. Shot look a little bit tougher on screen than they do in real life. This really isn't a tough shot to judge and the margin of error is HUGE.

 

[Aaron_S]

Well, I consider myself an expert at evaluating this, so with that being said, Michaela Tabb is defintely a gorgeous woman.



As far as the 9 ball goes ... its always interesting to see what you can learn when you have two great players fighting it out. Vilmos made the correct decision - and he forced his opponent to split up the clusters, then he was left in a position to clear the table. That's playing smart 9 ball.

I will certainly not argue point #1, LOL, and as for point #2, well I guess I will do the same.

No, I just really wasn't expecting him to put himself on two fouls when he could have thinned the 1 and separated that last cluster while playing safe at the same time. But... it's hard to argue with success, and he did go on the win the rack, so it looks like the smart play considering the outcome.

Thanks for the reply,

Aaron

 

[td873]

This very interesting rack was posted earlier (thanks to The Beginner for sharing it), and I was intrigued by Foldes' decision to play the two roll-up safeties rather than simply thinning the 1 and sending the cueball up-table.

As I said, I'm a bit confused by the decisions here. What do you guys think?

Don't miss the other moral to this video: you should always do something even when it looks like you are toast. In particular, when Foldes' opponent took the first foul (just brushing the cue ball away), he could have done "something" rather than give up the shot. For example, pushing the 8 onto the 4, or freezing the 4, 5, or 8 to a rail. This makes a runout harder in the event of giving up ball in hand. And any advantage in your favor at the top echelon is good.

For the average joe (aka, all of us) - this can come into play when your opponent hooks you and you have a low percentage kick out - or a kickout that will spread the table for your opponent. Instead of taking a flyer, you should look to see if there are any other balls to lock up to put a stopper in a runout.

Lastly, keep in mind, during a TV MATCH, which the vast majority of the AZ community have not (nor ever will) experience, the conditions and environment are different, the players' mindsets are different, the temperature and lighting are different, and the pressure is just a bit higher than a normal semi or finals situation. Being under the bright lights can bring out your best, or worst. It looks like Foldes made a couple good choices - well in hindsight anyway

-td

 

[Andrew Manning]

Well, I consider myself an expert at evaluating this, so with that being said, Michaela Tabb is defintely a gorgeous woman.



As far as the 9 ball goes ... its always interesting to see what you can learn when you have two great players fighting it out. Vilmos made the correct decision - and he forced his opponent to split up the clusters, then he was left in a position to clear the table. That's playing smart 9 ball.

I have to agree on all counts. Foldes wasn't going to win that rack unless he figured out a way to make the opponent (I think his name is Luong?) open up the balls. I think he would have liked to get him on 3 fouls, but more importantly, he realized after the first foul, that getting one more foul would force Luong to break things up on the next shot. He went for the second foul knowing that if he got it, Luong would be forced to open things up by going for a legal hit, because the 3-foul rule takes away all other options.

The genius of the play is that he squeezed Luong between selling out and three-fouling. Foldes eliminated any chance of Luong getting creative and out-moving him in the rack.

-Andrew

 

[Blackjack]

Because of the tough TV conditions, it adds to my amazement at the accuracy that Luong hit that jump shot with. I think its just a matter of time before Luong starts collecting World titles. He's one helluva player!

 

[Aaron_S]

You have to remember, you're looking at it on tv. Shot look a little bit tougher on screen than they do in real life. This really isn't a tough shot to judge and the margin of error is HUGE.

I know, but putting myself on two fouls when I don't have to just gives me the willies. You know Foldes' heart must have done a little flutter when he saw his opp. make a good hit on the ball, lol. He had to have been thinking "omg, don't hook me, pleeeease don't hook me!!!" You do make a good point about viewing something on tv, though; the shots absolutely look tougher.

Good rolls,

Aaron

 

[td873]

I think he would have liked to get him on 3 fouls, but more importantly, he realized after the first foul, that getting one more foul would force Luong to break things up on the next shot.

Ah, there's the rub. As mentioned above, Luong "lost" this game on his FIRST foul. He could have put a stopper on a potential run out, but he shot a "nothing" shot that came back to bite him. To me, it's interesting that the nothing shot came back to haunt him 5 shots later.

It was a great jump shot though!

-td

 

[Aaron_S]

Because of the tough TV conditions, it adds to my amazement at the accuracy that Luong hit that jump shot with. I think its just a matter of time before Luong starts collecting World titles. He's one helluva player!

Yeah, that was not exactly a hanger, was it

That was my first glimpse of Luong. I will have to look for more video of him.

Have a good weekend, everybody.

Aaron

 

[Andrew Manning]

Yeah, that was not exactly a hanger, was it

That was my first glimpse of Luong. I will have to look for more video of him.

Have a good weekend, everybody.

Aaron

There was (and probably still is) some footage of a scotch doubles tournament (was it called the World Cup of Pool?) where two players formed a team representing each country. I think Bustamante/Reyes won the event (big surprise). Luong was the better half of the Vietnam duo.

One thing I noticed on those videos when I watched them, was that Luong has a terrible-looking stroke. It curves like a banana, it seems like his shooting elbow doesn't settle into place until he's on his final stroke, he doesn't have much follow-through, and he jerks through it. He's still got good CB control but I wonder if he suffers on the long-straight shots, or those that require a lot of juice.

-Andrew

 

[Dragon Cue]

Luong Chi Dung

He's the best Vietnam has to offer. He has beaten world champs like Efren & others in Asia. He's still young & still needs more experience from the world stage. But watch out, Wu Chia Chang!

 

[Snapshot9]

I agree

that he lost it on the first foul. He reacted instead of being proactive.
Foldes played it right. He just rolled the dice, but the odds were with him.
Foldes has that snooker stroke, real short practice strokes, only full stroke is the hit stroke.

 

[DawgAndy]

What a great rack of nine ball that was. That's the most innings of pro nine ball I've seen in a long time. Break run out, break, push out , jump , run out. Very refreshing.

 

[olauzon]

Very refreshing.

oh well damn i'm gonna have to watch it then..


foldes is taking something positive with him from that game. even if that wasn't the thought at first, it's the nuts if you can walk away from a loop side feeling smiley (if he did).