Smokin Aces played on Valleys....

how is it even an argument that valley tables with the standard apple baskets for pockets play easier then a standard diamond. hahahaha you guys would argue over if water is wet lol Can you make a valley play tougher... Sure!!! People that come to my house are stunned when they roll a ball down the rail and it bumps the rail on its way there and stays out!!

a standard valley Is not made for pool players who can play the game!! It is made for arcades and bars where the average player is a knuckle head who is lucky to put more then 2 balls together. The quicker the game gets over with..the quicker someone has to put money in it to play another game. lol They are there to make money not be the choice of champions
 
Colonel said:
I think all bar boxes should be lit on fire. Period
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Then what happens to the game? That would mean the end of pool where I live since everything from tournaments to leagues has to be played on bar boxes since that's all there is .
 
leto1776 said:
Do you ever have anything actually worth saying?
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That would be a matter of perspective, some would and have said yes, others would and have said no. Considering you gave me red rep on the post you quoted I deduce you fall into the latter category. I say what's on my mind and what I believe & while there are those that feel barboxes and the league play that occurs on them are keeping the game alive, it certainly isn't my take. I feel they're a detriment to the game and that by having various different sized playing fields just another obstacle of many that hold this game from being taken seriously. Miniature Golf isn't golf, Table tennis isn't tennis and IMO barbox pool isn't pool, it's a bastardized version of it. Just as you have an opinion and are entitled to it so does everyone else, myself included.
 
Don't get me wrong, I prefer 9' tables and if I had the space at home I would have one or even a 5x10. But I don't believe bar boxes (or leagues for that matter) are the sole reasons as to what has lowered the overall skill level of pool in the US. Life is much more dynamic than that, and we've been on a decline of many things over the years.

I do believe bar tables are keeping the sport accessible to the few that still play (and don't have their own equipment) or new people interested for the first time. I believe this because even in the mid-late 80s and early 90s...if it wasn't for a Valley, I would have never been able to play as a teenager. We had a mom & pop convenient store that had a small back room with Ms. PacMan, pinball, and a Valley/Dynamo table. From about 15 yrs old on, I was in there every night playing for a couple bucks a game. Without that accessibility, none of us that played every night for years in there would have never played. Being able to walk into almost any establishment and play a game of pool, no matter the table size is a wonderful thing if you ask me. And if that's not enough evidence to the contrary that bar boxes bastardize the game...go to Europe and take a peek inside their uber small pubs and you will often find a 3x6 snooker table. Accessibility is the key to keeping the game alive, imo and bar boxes, while maybe not the pinnacle of master or world class play, does a very good job of keeping the game in front of regular folks.
 
NitPicker said:
Don't get me wrong, I prefer 9' tables and if I had the space at home I would have one or even a 5x10. But I don't believe bar boxes (or leagues for that matter) are the sole reasons as to what has lowered the overall skill level of pool in the US. Life is much more dynamic than that, and we've been on a decline of many things over the years.

I do believe bar tables are keeping the sport accessible to the few that still play (and don't have their own equipment) or new people interested for the first time. I believe this because even in the mid-late 80s and early 90s...if it wasn't for a Valley, I would have never been able to play as a teenager. We had a mom & pop convenient store that had a small back room with Ms. PacMan, pinball, and a Valley/Dynamo table. From about 15 yrs old on, I was in there every night playing for a couple bucks a game. Without that accessibility, none of us that played every night for years in there would have never played. Being able to walk into almost any establishment and play a game of pool, no matter the table size is a wonderful thing if you ask me. And if that's not enough evidence to the contrary that bar boxes bastardize the game...go to Europe and take a peek inside their uber small pubs and you will often find a 3x6 snooker table. Accessibility is the key to keeping the game alive, imo and bar boxes, while maybe not the pinnacle of master or world class play, does a very good job of keeping the game in front of regular folks.
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The British spend a lot of time playing on 6 foot tables with small pockets and don't seem to have a problem producing players like Appleton. They also play on 12 footers too...
 
That table is so small, I am sure the bar table haters could master those shots in 10 minutes. Yea right. Thanks for the video.
 
NitPicker said:
Don't get me wrong, I prefer 9' tables and if I had the space at home I would have one or even a 5x10. But I don't believe bar boxes (or leagues for that matter) are the sole reasons as to what has lowered the overall skill level of pool in the US. Life is much more dynamic than that, and we've been on a decline of many things over the years.

I do believe bar tables are keeping the sport accessible to the few that still play (and don't have their own equipment) or new people interested for the first time. I believe this because even in the mid-late 80s and early 90s...if it wasn't for a Valley, I would have never been able to play as a teenager. We had a mom & pop convenient store that had a small back room with Ms. PacMan, pinball, and a Valley/Dynamo table. From about 15 yrs old on, I was in there every night playing for a couple bucks a game. Without that accessibility, none of us that played every night for years in there would have never played. Being able to walk into almost any establishment and play a game of pool, no matter the table size is a wonderful thing if you ask me. And if that's not enough evidence to the contrary that bar boxes bastardize the game...go to Europe and take a peek inside their uber small pubs and you will often find a 3x6 snooker table. Accessibility is the key to keeping the game alive, imo and bar boxes, while maybe not the pinnacle of master or world class play, does a very good job of keeping the game in front of regular folks.
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This guy gets it. Take away bar boxes, and you probably reduce the number of tables in this country by half or more.
 
One of the biggest reasons for all the Valley haters is that most of them never played on a well taken care of and set up correctly Valley. Most of the ones that didn't like the big funnel pockets never have played on one that has been set up with tighter pockets and pro-cut rails. I'd like to see one streamed open tournament with Valley's that have pro-cut pockets and 4 1/8" or 4 1/4" pockets openings. I know there is a room in AL or LA that had Ridgeback rails put on all or a lot of their Valley's. I'm not sure if they have open tournaments or not there. Johnnyt
 
Johnnyt said:
One of the biggest reasons for all the Valley haters is that most of them never played on a well taken care of and set up correctly Valley. Most of the ones that didn't like the big funnel pockets never have played on one that has been set up with tighter pockets and pro-cut rails. I'd like to see one streamed open tournament with Valley's that have pro-cut pockets and 4 1/8" or 4 1/4" pockets openings. I know there is a room in AL or LA that had Ridgeback rails put on all or a lot of their Valley's. I'm not sure if they have open tournaments or not there. Johnnyt
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Here is an older thread where RKC says the Valley's have 4.5 inch corners from the factory , i believe Dynamos prior to being bought out by Valley had bigger pocket .


http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=84753&highlight=valley&page=2
 
Johnnyt said:
One of the biggest reasons for all the Valley haters is that most of them never played on a well taken care of and set up correctly Valley. Most of the ones that didn't like the big funnel pockets never have played on one that has been set up with tighter pockets and pro-cut rails. I'd like to see one streamed open tournament with Valley's that have pro-cut pockets and 4 1/8" or 4 1/4" pockets openings. I know there is a room in AL or LA that had Ridgeback rails put on all or a lot of their Valley's. I'm not sure if they have open tournaments or not there. Johnnyt
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That's Emerald Billiards Johnny. We need to have a tournament at Emeralds again.

Ray
 
Colonel said:
That would be a matter of perspective, some would and have said yes, others would and have said no. Considering you gave me red rep on the post you quoted I deduce you fall into the latter category. I say what's on my mind and what I believe & while there are those that feel barboxes and the league play that occurs on them are keeping the game alive, it certainly isn't my take. I feel they're a detriment to the game and that by having various different sized playing fields just another obstacle of many that hold this game from being taken seriously. Miniature Golf isn't golf, Table tennis isn't tennis and IMO barbox pool isn't pool, it's a bastardized version of it. Just as you have an opinion and are entitled to it so does everyone else, myself included.
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Okay, so take away every bar box in the country. Burn them all, as you would like. How many pool tables are left? How many people now no longer have access to pool? Probably half or more. You big-track-only guys that have regular access to them really have blinders on, and need to really get out more. When you red repped me, you say I take exception to any opinion that isn't my own. Not true. I take exception to "opinions" formed of ignorance and blind hatred and snobbery.

Btw, never met anyone who considers table tennis a bastardized form of tennis, or compares it to real tennis. It's a respected game in and of itself. The mini golf comparison is also a fail, because miniature golf is made wonky on purpose.
 
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